Forum:Archive/Country codes

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4 digit codes NEEDED

So, today, just now, I extracted the data from the table at OGF:Territories and did the following:

  • Deleted Lonowai, as it is part of Gobrassanya.
  • Deleted all but one AR120 territory, since they are all part of one nation.

Turns out, there are 1011 nations in this world. Still, this number may be smaller with the unrecognized states or other relations that are split into multiple parts. Yet, if this number is true, then we need 4 digit T-codes.

Talk to Rhiney boi 04:30, 7 June 2019 (CEST)

Not every city-state needs its own code! Since about 97 % of the 1011 countries do not have any infrastructure for electricity on the map I assume they do not use telephones at all, so why to discuss these codes? In addition, for 1 & 2 letter A-codes we have 702 possibilities, for 1 & 2 & 3 letter A-codes we have 18278 possibilities. --Mstr (talk) 14:49, 7 June 2019 (CEST)
That's because they aren't owned. We should have enough numbers to satisfy the needs of what is POSSIBLE, not what will happen, because, who knows? Huge influx of new users and the admins will eventually open up the west.
Talk to Rhiney boi 15:45, 7 June 2019 (CEST)
I think it's a touch premature to change the system entirely yet, especially given that some countries have banded together to use a single code. This removes about 10 from the "need" list. Plus, the number of territories in the new continents isn't entirely fixed and can change as Thilo decides. We could end up with another large project akin to the FSA or a thousand new small isolated colonial-type cities on a single continent. It's good to know that there may be an exhaustion as soon as the other continents open, but I think this is a very low priority at this point. — Alessa (talk) 16:02, 7 June 2019 (CEST)
Yeah, it is pretty low priority. Let's cross this bridge when we get to it.
Talk to Rhiney boi 16:12, 7 June 2019 (CEST)

Also we are still planning to use 2-letter ccTLDs, which came from alt-ISO country codes. This despite having more than 676 territories with admin_level=2 (though is that still the case and they're not just FS/CCA/AR states or WM counties or other non-outlying admin divisions that have their own blue/green/purple/owned status? better check) Bootmii (talk) 23:11, 1 June 2020 (PDT, UTC-7)

Reserved T-Codes

I think we need to reserve some T-Codes for larger countries that don't have a user yet. E.g. for UL141, which is supposed to be a larger Franquese speaking country (part of it was part of Ísztianország until a few months ago). I propose 0250 for this country. --Joschi81 (talk) 13:29, 15 January 2018 (CET)

With regards to Toadwart's comment from earlier today: +250, of course :) --Joschi81 (talk) 13:30, 15 January 2018 (CET)

T-Code conflict

I see that some countries share the same Telephone-code number. It needs to be changed, right? Freedemia was just added and is using "0577" just like Mahhal. Also, Tara and Latina use "0411".--Zniwek (talk) 19:08, 7 April 2015 (CEST)

Tara formerly was a part of Latina, so it is the old technical connection of telephon infrastructure --Histor (talk) 00:19, 18 May 2015 (CEST)
Freedemia has been fixed for a long time- I noticed the error literally the day it was added. I believe it's now 0513 and it's been like that for quite some time --Ernestpcosby (talk) 16:16, 18 May 2015 (CEST)
As you can see I noticed the conflict on 7 April. You fixed it on 8 April ;) --Zniwek (talk) 17:16, 18 May 2015 (CEST)

3 digit code

What is the policy about 3-digit codes? Especially about 035 for Mariana while having 0350 for Mergany and Bürttemwerg? Hellerick (talk) 08:15, 8 January 2016 (CET)

No 3-digit-code. There are a lot of countries in eastern Uletha. If you take 035 only for your small land with the funny names of Mergany,you block the numbers for 9 other countries. --Histor (talk) 10:35, 8 January 2016 (CET)
Then something has to be done to 035 Mariana and 056 Elhadia. While probably for some larger countries it still could be tolerated (But of course it's difficult to define whether a country is large enough in a world like this). Hellerick (talk) 10:54, 8 January 2016 (CET)
I do not see any problem with the code of "funny" Mergany. --Mstr (talk) 12:25, 8 January 2016 (CET)
@ Mstr: May be, you see no problems and all is "funny". But no 3-digit-code. Your "Würdem-Bartenberg" has its own telephon-code - what do you want more? Du nervst mit deinen Sonderwünschen. --Histor (talk) 14:31, 8 January 2016 (CET)
to be exact: I see no difficulties with 0350 for Mergany, that was all I said. Bürttemwerg has no extra T-code, and my intention was to correct things and not to anger anyboby, albeit my presence seems to annoy you. Mstr (talk) 17:51, 8 January 2016 (CET)

The page doesn't prohibit 3 digit codes, it gives in the example to add 03x and says nothing that it has to be 3 digits. If there is confusion with Mergny it can be changed to 036, 037, etc. Brunanter (talk) 16:42, 8 January 2016 (CET)

And again! Codes with 0xx allows only 100 telephon-codes. Therefore the OGF-world has codes with 4 digits, first "0", then a digit for the continent and then 2 digits (are 100 codes) for countries on this continent. If somebodey takes an code with only 3 digits, he logically claims 10 numbers. And if somebody do this as owner of a small land, then it is not friendly.
@Brunater = The page doesn't prohibit 3 digit codes. The page does not prohibite a lot of things. But you have seen, that all other codes are with 4 digits. I like this guys, who always will have special rights. All telephon-codes with only three digits I will set to 4 digits. Eod. --Histor (talk) 20:01, 8 January 2016 (CET)
@History - I don't want to cause more issues, so I chose 0360 for Mariana. But in the real world, not all codes are the same. Europe has some like +34 (2 digits), +351 (3 digits) and 1 for the United States. Don't you think it would be more realistic for countries to have different telephone code lengths? Brunanter (talk) 22:28, 8 January 2016 (CET)
Come on, not a useful discussion now. Look instead at something like this: http://opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/Udilugbuldigu_Sandbox/Internet_Engineering_Group Who controls the internet in OGF? How is it possible that we all map? --Udilugbuldigu (talk) 23:01, 8 January 2016 (CET)

Dear Brunater, that is well known. And clear - great countries have more telephones, so it is useful to give this countries short numbers. So we can discuss long and broad, which is an OGF-land for 2 digits, for 3 digits or maybe 5 digits. Good luck. I do not mean, that we should do this. Therefore in the OGF-world each country simply has one number with 4 digits.

We are not more in the time of our grandparents, where telephones has this disc with the holes in it and where to have a "9" or "0" in the telefon-number was a little bit of discrimination, while you neeed longer time (clear - therefore the "1" for USA, Canada and some surrounding areas). With the modern telephones you can chosse each number so fast as an other.

And the international code is not all. In greater towns you have numbers with 7 digits (or more) - so you must take the sum of international ##, national ## and the numbers in town. And then it can be look in other manner. Telephones in my town can be reached reached worlwide with only 12 digits (older numbers only 11), the first four are 0049. --Histor (talk) 00:39, 9 January 2016 (CET)

Let's have a rule: if a country owner can prove that his country's population is at least twice larger than one tenth of the continent's population (where "continent" is a region specified by code 02 through 06), then he can have a 3-digit code. How he's going to prove it is up to him, while it's up to the community to decide whether the proof sounds plausible. Hellerick (talk) 12:34, 9 January 2016 (CET)

No. We do not want endless discussions, under what conditions one country can get a "better" telephon-code as others. Great lands here in OGF with more than 100 000 000 inhabitants are satiesfied with a 4-digit-code. And no one of the administrators has the meaning, to proof every week, if a country has less or more as 1/10 inhabitants of the continent or to moderate such discussions.
And too you can manipulate simply the number of inhabitants - or shall be proofed, if the number of inhabitants is realistic in sight of the mapping reality? What is the problem, to accept a 4-digit telephon-code as all others accepted? --Histor (talk) 13:03, 9 January 2016 (CET)

LAT for Latania

This is no good idea - too close to "Latina" (which has only L). Please change it - to "LT" or others. --Histor (talk) 19:52, 1 January 2016 (CET)

Bad ideas happen. Like real-life SLO is used for Slovenia, even though it could be used for Slovakia. Hellerick (talk) 20:02, 1 January 2016 (CET)
Heh? Your TLD is .pl for PriLatanyam but your car-code must be "LAT" and not "PL"? So please change it.
S = Swedwen. That is NOT the beginning of SLO-wenien or SK-SlowaKei. Your example makes no sense.
--Histor (talk) 23:15, 2 January 2016 (CET)
My example with SLO was about a real-life bad choice for the car code. Another is LT for Lithuania which can be perceived as the code for the neighboring Latvia and I'm sure is a source for confusion. And the OGF world is not supposed to be better than the real world.
Okay I'll change it to PL, it is not like I care. Hellerick (talk) 04:13, 3 January 2016 (CET)

As a neutral, I would advocate PL solely because of consistency with TLD and that two letters are preferable to three for an A-code. To be honest, somebody might just as well take issue with KA for Karolia being confused with Kalm, but as these countires are thousands of kilometers apart it would be unlikely to cause a problem. (Karolia used to use KV until a law was passed requiring any RHD vehicles to display a 'V' sticker). A-codes are increasingly being moved to license plates in the real world. --Sarepava (talk) 17:07, 3 January 2016 (CET)

Continent Codes

Many apologies, I missed reading the continent code section when I attributed 0211 to Pėzėpölān. I will change this to 0512 to indicate its location in Antarephia (and seeing 0511 is already taken). There is one future problem I see - there are four future continents to add OR AR KA PE, but only 3 numbers 4 digit left 07xx, 08xx, 09xx. Solution maybe = combine the two smallest continents - OR & PE? --Udilugbuldigu (talk) 21:34, 8 January 2016 (CET)

Indeed numbers with 00xx shall be not in normal use. There are two solutions = 4 digits for the 4 new continents and one for Tarephia and Antarephia or 3 digits for the new continent - one common for two smaller continents. I think, the second way is better, so as you has written. --Histor (talk) 21:55, 8 January 2016 (CET)

A technology based idea

This may seem random, but as the user who invented Stepstone Technology, I had an idea that I thought could help my business and the entire issue over T-codes. Stepstone makes smartphones, as do some of our competitors. I was thinking- is it possible for Stepstone to "patent" (in OGF i mean) a system where you can just select a country and it automatically dials the international T-code? Then, Stepstone users (and the users of any other companies Stepstone licensed the technology to) using smartphones could just select a nation (with the device automatically dialing the T-code) and then dial the normal local number. People would have less difficulty dialing international numbers and the T-codes would mainly be for those calling from a non-smartphone. The only issue I imagine is other companies complaining about it being a Stepstone monopoly. Then again, we invented the technology so :P What do you all think? --Ernestpcosby (talk) 01:02, 10 January 2016 (CET)

The best kind of code if the code you can dial without thinking of anything. Hellerick (talk) 09:36, 10 January 2016 (CET)
Well, it sounds good, but I think it does not make us ignore the "real" country codes in OGF. In present days, I just select my mom, my brother or my girlfriend name and call them with my smartphone, but their cell numbers (and "area codes") still exists, hehehe. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 10:21, 10 January 2016 (CET)
Okay, so are you saying yes as long as the codes are still acknowledged and commonly used otherwise or are you saying no it's a bad idea? --Ernestpcosby (talk) 01:38, 11 January 2016 (CET)

A few things

  • There are again short dialling codes. While I am open to discuss the possibility to use the short codes, maybe for AR120 or for countries which form a common numbering space (eg. 0200), I must point to the fact that Myrcia cannot have 05 while Paxtar has 0500. If for whatever reason Myrcia would deserve 05, then it would block any other number starting with 05.
  • The leading 0 is redundant and should be replaced with a +. Not all numbering plans, not to mention barely any in RW, use 0 as international prefix.
  • The new continents coming soon, I would suggest +7 for PE & OR, +8 for ER, and +9 for KA

--Toadwart (talk) 11:46, 15 January 2018 (CET)

How? Phones are able to differentiate between +5 123-456-7890 and +500 123-456-7890? --Rhiney Boi (on mobile, so no tildes, sorry)
But not between +5 123-456-7890 and +512 3456-7890, you can't dial spaces or dashes. --Toadwart (talk) 00:05, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
If you set a world standard of 10 digits after the T-Code, then this issue won't come up. Plus, it nicely parallels our real system. --Rhiney boi (talk) 05:47, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
First, it does not parallel our real system. There is no world standard of 10 digits. The NANPA has, but not the world. And by the way, which country has dialling code +12 or +123 then? Second, the issue would come up, as (at least) old phones don't know when you finish dialling, they already connect while you are still dialling. If you want to call +512 345-6789-012, the phone would already connect to +5 123-456-7890 once you dialled the 0. Third, even it were true what you said, or assuming you would find a new workaround. Then why do you want that? Who is going to get the short numbers. Currently is a consensus that everey country has 3 digits. If you want to change that for whatever reason, be honest enough and name that reason. You might be right and we might agree. Start a thread in the forum maybe. But currently it just doesn't work out. --Toadwart (talk) 12:15, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Why should we replace a very simple 3-digits code by something more complicated without having any benefit? This discussion came up several times without giving just one reason, the only reason was "my country is more important than xxx so I need a 1 digit code" and this does not work here.--Mstr (talk) 12:29, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Since we're sticking with the longer codes and longer numbers I'll go ahead with the idea I'd mentioned above with having a Freedemian-patented system available for all smartphones where you can just select a country and it automatically dials that code. It won't help non-smartphones but it certainly takes a bit of a load off from dialing 0100 234 567 8901 --Ernestpcosby (talk) 17:43, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
This won't solve this problem. Of course Freedemia can develop such a system but how should it influence the world wide T-codes? There are many codes available, so why does it have to be discussed every five weeks again and again?--Mstr (talk) 18:22, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
I only ask because I think that the FS should have a single digit +6 instead of +63, since it is important. I have now seen why this would not work, and am dropping my argument.--Rhiney boi (mobile).
This is actually a relevant question. I checked the history and found that Histor added the FS with the ambiguous entry "+63...", which I interpret as a three-digit code with the third digit to be decided. It could also be that is a two digit code, I which case the +63x range must be cleared. It would make sense to me that the FSA get a two digit code as a one-off decision or as a precedence for future very large or collaborative territories. Also, I just noticed, that +1 and +0 are still free and could be used. There is also the possibility, that each FSA state gets its own dialling code in the +6xx range. Then you could use a three digit area code beginning with those two numbers (xxy) zzz-zzzz. Would need to be worked out and checked for logical errors, but that might a usable compromise. In any case I would suggest to have a discussion in the forum about it, as it will come up ever and ever again otherwise. --Toadwart (talk) 19:14, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
I think +1 would be a good idea... --Rhiney boi (mobile)
I don't know what the definition of a good "idea" is, but +1 is so uncreative that it nearly hurts. Given the fact, that there is strong opposition even for a two digit code, going for a one digit code is adventurous. While I would support to open the +1 range for large collaborative territories, (FSA and Commonia at the moment), to give them two digit codes, (e.g. +11), I would strongly oppose wasting the entire +1 range for one country. --Toadwart (talk) 20:32, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
I support 2 digit as well. --Rhiney boi (mobile)
My opinion is that +63x for the FSA is sufficient, with the 3rd digit e.g. according to the region. At the moment there is just one other country in this range (+633 Andalaz which might be lost in a few days). If it is not sufficient, there is the +69x range with only one country, so the FSA could have +63x and +69x. I would use the +1xx codes for the new continents. We should be aware that in the OGFworld there are many more countries compared to the real world, I guess 4 or 5 times more. So please be always aware of that while discussing codes! If they run out long before all countries participate the system is ineligible. In general, I would avoid any exception. What is it good for? It is just a code which does not hav any relevance for the mapping at all.--Mstr (talk) 21:03, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Assuming telephones evolved the same way in OGF as in the real world and direct dialing started with rotary phones, as someone mentioned upthread there’s a significant historical upside in using lower numbers for telephone numbers dialed more often. (There’s a reason why Manhattan’s area code started as 212). While it’s already taken in Archanta, I think having whatever the largest country on each continent inherit the +x11 country code would be a good standard, with other large countries getting similarly low codes (+x12, +x21, +x22, etc.). -TheMayor (talk) 21:20, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Since it is a general OGF-policy not to have the "largest" or "most important" I don't see any feasibleness. Each code should have the same importance.Mstr (talk) 21:30, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
That rule obviously has limits. It’s not unreasonable to assume that the FSA has more telephone numbers than other Archantan nations like Artenia or Levarrie. -TheMayor (talk) 21:43, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Yes, so that's the reason why the FS should have more than just one +6xx-code.--Mstr (talk) 21:45, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
The FSA should not have multiple country codes. If OGF rules treat the FSA the same as any other nation regardless of size, giving the FSA multiple codes would set the precedent that other nations can reserve multiple country codes as well. The FSA should have a single 3-digit country code relative to its role in Archanta. -TheMayor (talk) 22:07, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Relative to its role in Archanta? Having 10 or 20 codes out of 100 isn't sufficient? Indeed, each FSA-state is treated like each other territory, but I think they don't need 99 codes since they are more related to each other than independent countries. Opening +1xx for FSA would mean that there won't be enough codes for the rest of the planet. Standard territories can be split into several countries and can therefore claim more than one code. So what is this discussion about, changing the OGF-rules? --Mstr (talk) 22:26, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Unless I'm reading it wrong, I don't see how "single 3-digit country code" could be read as "10 or 20 codes out of 100". It literally means one code for the country. Just one that's easier to dial/has lower numbers, so like a +600 vs a +699. Right? --Ernestpcosby (talk) 22:44, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Each FSA state should have its own local code which would be determined by the FSA, but the FSA as a whole should have its own +6xx country code. Since the FSA is so large it would make sense to have a low-numbered code like +600 or +611. If that sounds like a decent idea to other mappers, we can reach out to those current owners to see if either would be willing to change their country code and give +600 or +611 to the Federal States. None of those things are against OGF rules. -TheMayor (talk) 22:50, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
Okay, then I got it wrong! I think Histor's (or the one who added +63x) idea was that the FSA should get several codes, so in fact it has only 2 digits for the country, which might be okay since the size of the country. If your intention was to get the +600 or +611 code why do we need this discussion? You can see in the table who "owns" it and ask. Since there are several good choices I see no problem to get one of them?--Mstr (talk) 22:57, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
+613 is still free. I think that's as low as they get for the available ones. We could go with that for now until/unless we get approval to switch with some other country with a lower number --Ernestpcosby (talk) 23:13, 21 April 2019 (CEST)
+608 and +609 are lower... --Rhiney boi (talk) 23:51, 21 April 2019 (CEST)

The FSA has a lot of more telephones as some dwarf-counties in Archanta. Therefore I think, "+63" (technical +631 to +630) can be used for the FSA (and its differnet regions!). If the FSA must have three digits, then "+611" (like Latina in Tarephia with "+411"). +611 now has Zylanda since long times. Guys - make a good suggestion what to do for Zylanda --Histor (talk) 15:59, 2 May 2019 (CEST)

And if you want to make it "really" realistic, give the FAS "+61", if Zylanda (+611), Jörpenislands (+612), Balonis (+616) and Surricy (+610) will change its numbers. Zylanda and the Jörpenislands will change then, the both other user are to ask. --Histor (talk) 16:12, 2 May 2019 (CEST)

Please make clear whether the FSA would have one short code or ten long codes. I know there's a major threat of overwikification, but let's be realistic: many users want to give their states or cities prefixes, so the prefix range must be defined and must technically work out. I can offer my help to work out something simple or you just copy the NANPA thing. In any case, don't leave it ambiguous. --Toadwart (talk) 16:25, 2 May 2019 (CEST)
Why can't the country code be +613 or whatever three-digit number? Yes, the FSA has more telephones, but you don't need to dial +613 before every number inside the FSA. There can be regional area codes in a manner similar to the NANPA, as Toadwart says. That way the FSA is consistent with every other country for international dialing. — Alessa (talk) 16:32, 2 May 2019 (CEST)
I guess we are not really getting far. We found some consensus but not sufficiently. I think we can agree that the topic was not settled before. There was indeed a discussion three years ago. And we also notice that @histor was against exception then but is for an exception now. Therefore we can possibly agree that the situation is now new with the FSA as a for now unique precedent. Also I observe there is no admin for this page and with it no one we can ask to make a decision. Even if we would bother an admin, they could probably say that it is not mapping related and therefore a waste of time and energy. Furthermore, I would like to ask the FSA involved users, if they can imagine to set up a NANPA equivalent and assign prefixes inside the FSA, otherwise I would think that it is wasted time indeed to bother about the intl. prefix, while the national numbering is unorganized anyway. Maybe that would even be a realistic theme that there is no federal numbering system in use and all states organize telephones on their own. And another thing to think about: Every country is free to set up a completely different system of calling abroad and ignoring the internationally agreed numbers anyway. For instance Austria to Germany was 060 before it was standardized to 0049. And the Aorangean & Co. Numbering Scheme will probably set the FSA code to 0010 for calls from Aorangea to the FSA. --Toadwart (talk) 18:47, 2 May 2019 (CEST)
Wow! In the real world the USA claim, to use only the "1". Most the greater countries in Europe use "30" (Greek), "39" (Italy), "40" (Romania), "41" (Suisse) or "49" (Germany). But too the small Danmark has "45" and the greater Czech Republik "420" and Portugal "351". Can this be o.k.? Yes, as we see.
Three years ago there was no such object as the FAS. So the situation has changed. As the FSA was created, I set the "63" as aequivalent to the "1" of real USA. Nothing more. "613" is a joke, if you see, that the FSA is the dominant country in Archanta. Give them "611", if it must be 3-digits. Then Zylanda can be "631" and the Jörpens "632". Here is more bureaucary as in real life, --Histor (talk) 19:05, 2 May 2019 (CEST)
How much bureaucracy it must have been in RW. I haven't checked the history, but you can see patterns there as some "powerful" countries picked the "good" numbers. That Russia has +7 while China and India have two digits can't have been a fair thing. Anyway, I still think this could be a good exercise in getting a bit governance into non-admin-issues, but for now I would say: let the FSA users work out their numbering scheme and ignore the problem until then. Granting the +63 code as reward for a good internal collaboration would be a nice thing then. --Toadwart (talk) 20:45, 2 May 2019 (CEST)
This entire article is overwikification. Absent some larger international standard where larger countries get the same or similar last two digits after the continent code, just pull two numbers out of a hat, put a 6 in front of them, call that the FSA calling code and move on. -TheMayor (talk) 21:34, 2 May 2019 (CEST)
In all seriousness, if histor is gracious enough to give the FSA the +611 code, let’s stick with that. The FSA will determine its own domestic area code/phone number system. -TheMayor (talk) 21:45, 2 May 2019 (CEST)

August 2019 Purge

I removed the numbers which have not been changed since I marked them a few months ago as a zone mismatch. I also marked some new ones.

Furthermore I counted the number of territories (not counting those with a dash, i.e. AR120-01) and found more than a hundred for each continent. I therefore defined a previously free range for four-digit codes for use by very small territories. The rules are only suggestions, and as long as not every country is occupied or bothers to turn up in the list we should have not much trouble with the new rules. For most users this change should not make any difference.

Nevertheless, if anyone spots any mistake or disagrees with the idea, or has a better idea, or knows how we could use the +0 or +1 range. Write it here... --Toadwart (talk) 14:31, 21 August 2019 (CEST)