Forum:Global and regional issues/Eastern Ulethan Organisation of Independent Allies

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What is the status of EUOIA?

Admin note: Pre-2021 discussion has been moved to an archive page for future reference and to clear out space here.

In the old wiki, we had EUOIA. Now that the old wiki is going, I'm wondering what is the status of EUOIA? Will it still be a thing? There seems to be very few mentions of it in the current wiki and of course most of the old information will be gone soon so even if it still shows on the map somewhere, there's very little information around. —Unsigned comment by Eevee (talk).

Honestly, I'm not sure how much interest there is in the EUOIA at this point in time. Perhaps there is some?

If there is interest in the EUOIA, there are two options that are possible for active regional collaborations: A collab page can be made (such as Collab:Eastern Ulethan Organisation of Independent Allies that is for regional collaboration, discussion, and coordination; also, if there is a desire for an in-universe article, the EUOIA page can be made in the main namespace. We only ask that EUOIA article (not collab page) be reserved for in-universe and on-map documentation like an encyclopedia entry; user-to-user coordination and collaboration should be in a collab page. Feel free to ask me directly if you have other questions. — Alessa _(talk) 21:52, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Izaland would be now interested in an active role in EUOIA now, since in the meantime I have been mapping it significantly, and probably Izaland would also be the major economy in Eastern Uletha. (by Izaland - 10:41 JST 21 February 2022 [sorry, I don't know how to use the signature in the wiki])

Eelanti is still interested in EUOIA as well and could have some role in it too. So I guess if there are a few others it could still be a thing. I'm not sure how to reach other people best to see if there is interest. (Signature is "~~~~" btw) — Eevee (talk) 01:52, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

I can't think of any major influence on my mapping that came from being part of EUOIA; so unless that changes, i.e. by having communal military bases or hosting foreign ones, a common nomenclature for nature reserves (like EU's FFH) or what not, the EUOIA would for the most part still be a wiki-sided project with few reflections on the actual map. That doesn't mean Kojo wouldn't be part of a new EUOIA, but I'd personally prefer if we thought about the mapping-side of things first.Leowezy (talk) 09:06, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

It definitely should be visible on the map. But that does require some collaboration first. The EU for example has many different office buildings in different countries. As an example, the European Chemicals Agency in Helsinki. So it definitely could include many map based things in addition to potential parliament buildings, courts, EUOIA embassies etc. But that would be for the community to decide. The old EUOIA had some suborganisations, but we probably would need an active core to EUOIA to get the basic stuff decided, so that it could be mapped as well. — Eevee (talk) 20:41, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

For what it's worth, my country, Kara, would be interested in a EUOIA although it wasn't a member before (it didn't exist 😉) Anonymous21 (talk) 14:41, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

From my side there is also interest in a new EUOIA. There was some cooperation ongoing, we built a rail transport corridor across the islands from the south to the north of Eastern Uletha, electricity lines and so on. --Mstr (talk) (talk) 17:55, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Neberly wasn't part of EUOIA before, but should it come back i would like it to be a member too. Antoon (talk) 16:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

As there seems to be growing interest in this, how should we continue our discussions and find new members? Mstr sentt me a message and I shared some thought and ideas with him already. In my view active discussions on the area, it's relationships, collaborations and geopolitics could help mapping a lot (even when it's not a literal building for EUOIA). It could make the region more coherent and realistic. --Eevee (talk) 20:50, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Another point is that all OGF members may not follow the forum discussions or they might not even have a wiki account. So some interested people may not see this discussion.--Eevee (talk) 20:52, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

I realy think it could be a fun idea to collab on. the EU has a lot of influence in mapping, borders, buildings, highways etc. IRL, so it makes sense that out EU-like organization would too. Ifgus (talk) 23:39, 03 August 2022 (EEST)

So I made this table with (what I think are) all the territories in East Uletha that we can use to track who's on interested in the project. And for people who don't know about the EUOIA idea, we can contact them (just leave a note in the right column) and see if they're interested. Maybe this will help with gauging interest? Anonymous21 (talk) 04:05, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Status	ID Code	Owner	Contacted - Interested in EUOIA
reserved	UL18a	admin
available	UL18b	admin
owned	UL18c	Reviriegu
reserved	UL19a	admin
available	UL19b	admin
available	UL20a	admin
owned	UL20b	ndgid
reserved	UL20c	admin
available	UL20d	admin
owned	UL21a	SwissCrusader	Interested
owned	UL21b	SwissCrusader	Do not add (unstable country)
archived	UL21c	admin
owned	UL21d	jak
owned	UL21e	jak
owned	UL21f	Sarepava
owned	UL21g	Halvarda
owned	UL21h	Halvarda
owned	UL21i	Halvarda
owned	UL22a	antoon	Interested
owned	UL22b	SwissCrusader	Interested
available	UL22c	admin
owned	UL22d	Rasmus Rasmusson
owned	UL22e	Yuanls	Interested
owned	UL22f	Anonymous21	Interested
owned	UL22i	SwissCrusader	Interested
owned	UL23a	theCubic
owned	UL23b / Eelanti	Eevee
reserved	UL23c	admin
available	UL23d	admin
owned	UL24b	tars
owned	UL24c	julijahaller
owned	UL24d	julijahaller
owned	UL24e	julijahaller
owned	UL24i	mstr
owned	UL24j	mstr
collaborative	Collab:Viljanni	mstr
owned	UL24l	TheMapper27
owned	UL24m	ifgus
owned	UL25a	Jasmetk0
reserved	UL25b	admin
marked for withdrawal	UL25c	elabo
reserved	UL25d	admin
reserved	UL25f	admin
reserved	UL25g	admin
reserved	UL25h	admin
collaborative	Collab:Midistland	admin
available	UL26b	admin
available	UL26c	admin
available	UL26d	admin
available	UL26e	admin
available	UL26f	admin
reserved	UL27a	admin
available	UL27b	admin
owned	Reeland	tule00	Interested
available	UL27d	admin
reserved	UL27e	admin
reserved	UL27f	admin
reserved	UL27g	admin
owned	Laurentia	fauxcartograph
owned	Steilerberg	tule00	I think better not, as it's a very small country (and maybe even a tax haven?)
available	UL28a	admin
owned	UL28b	Distel
owned	UL28c	reCharged
owned	UL28d	geoboi
marked for withdrawal	UL28e	CaribbeanIslandMapper
owned	UL28f	Stara Zagora
owned	UL28g	Chrisi LE EO
available	UL28h	[1]
owned	UL29c	Gubble
owned	Westway	acv
owned	UL29h	APP6A
owned	Lantia	nehalem501	Interested to join
available	UL29j	admin
owned	UL29k	sjk23
owned	UL29l	MarcustheMapper
owned	UL30a	admin
reserved	UL30b	admin
reserved	UL30c	admin
marked for withdrawal	UL30d	Trellux
reserved	UL30e	admin
reserved	UL31a	admin
owned	UL31b	Leowezy
owned	UL31c	drgtgd
owned	UL31e / Izaland	Izaland Terramorphing Committee	Interested
available	UL32a	[2]
owned	UL32c	Easky30
owned	UL32d	BelpheniaProject
collaborative	Collab:Niulutan-Riu	admin
archived	UL33b	admin
owned	UL33c	BelpheniaProject
owned	UL33d	deltanz
reserved	Collab:Suvuma	BMSOUZA
owned	UL33f	BMSOUZA
available	UL33g	admin
owned	UL33h	BMSOUZA
owned	UL33i	Easky30
available	UL33j	admin
owned	UL33k	Marcello
owned	UL33l	Lithium-Ion
owned	UL33m	Lithium-Ion

Starting a "new" EUOIA or reanimate the old one?

As Eevee already mentioned, I've tried to find out the interest in an EUOIA successor organization. Since there have been much more users responding with "yes" than not responding or saying "no", I tried to set up a first idea here (feel free to edit, add content, etc.). It is based on the outcome of the responses, which told me that there are different levels of contribution, independency of the nation and topics which should be addressed. So, it seems to be plausible to, lets say, start with some treaties which are essential for every member nation to ratify. Additionally, there could be more precise agreements, where only those join who are interested in. I think, before it is moved from a sandbox to a separate page, we should discuss and finalize the name of the organization.--Mstr (talk) (talk) 21:54, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

For me, the old name "Eastern Ulethan Organisation of Independent Allies" is in general okay. It was Rasmus Rasmusson who came up with the name. The main advantage is that EUOIA is well known on the OGF planet. To have "Independent" in the name seems to be important for some/most nations who would like to use EUOIA to extend their sphere of influence, but do not want the EUOIA to be a "European Union" with parliament, council, ... . "Eastern Ulethan" should be in the name as well or does the region have other (well established) names? I'm a little bit struggling with "Allies", since, to mee as non-native speaker, it sounds like a military context. If it is so, the organization might have started as military alliance (is there an already defined history of wars in our region?) or we replace it by another word (so that we are able to pronounce its abbreviation), e.g. "associates". I'm very interested in what you think. --Mstr (talk) (talk) 22:08, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

I have the same feeling about the use of the word "allies", probably it points to the fact that the EUOIA is a direct consequence of a possible past World War. However the name is already quite mainstream in my head, so I think we could go ahead with this. Izaland would like to participate, although it would have a high degree of independence, either economic and commercial, compared to other smaller E.Ulethan nations. --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 14:54, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

I would like to join the old or new organisation --Julijahaller (talk) 20:24, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I'm a native English speaker (from the US), and the word "allies" definitely has a military connotation to me, but it can also be used in other contexts (like "political allies"). So it could be okay. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 00:17, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, your answer is quite useful! Is there any RW organization with "allies" in its name not dating back to a non-military origin? We do not have to avoid the military origin, it however makes it much harder to establish a historical background as soon as there is no consistent history of wars...--Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, I can't think of any RW organizations with "allies" in it. You're right :) -- I agree that we shouldn't use the "allies" unless it has some sort of military origin. — Anonymous21 (talk) 19:57, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

I think we should start from scratch. Start forming an organization (I'm fine with keeping the acronym) and people that want to join/contribute are more than welcome --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) I am also interested in Nuen joining the organization, and agree to all the treaty ideas below except common currency. Gubble (talk) 21:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Treaty Ideas

As we figure out what we want treaty-wise for the EUOIA we could put ideas in this table

Treaty Name	Main Points	Proposed by (signature block)	Discussion
Mutual Protection Treaty	Members will participate in joint military exercises Any member state that attacks another member state will be immediately removed from the Organisation If any member state is attacked by another military power all other members will aid in a military response ("an attack on one is an attack on all") If any member becomes aware of an imminent threat on another member state, the threatened member state must be notified as soon as possible	Anonymous21 (talk) 00:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	okay--Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC) fine by me --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) agree --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) agreed only if we are all democratic countries --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) agree, the problem is that Sapvuodma have a really tense relationship with UL19a. --DT_Planner (talk)
Human Rights Agreement	Each member state must protect the human rights of citizens of all members (except when rights must be waived to protect national security) Human rights are defined as: The freedoms of speech, the press, expression, belief, worship, peaceful assembly, and safe and peaceful protest Rights to participate in free, fair, and democratic elections for all adult citizens (excluding incarcerated individuals and felons as determined by each member state) Right to a trial by an impartial jury consisting of peers Freedom from slavery or involuntary servitude Freedom from discrimination on the basis of race, color, biological sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, political views, marital status, nationality, cultural background, medical history, ability, and ethnicity. (please add/suggest more)	Anonymous21 (talk) 00:37, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	okay, would exclude some forms of government--Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC) Basically would exclude dictatorships, monarchies without a constitution and/or elected parliament, anarchies, etc., I think that's what we would want? Or are we talking a group that takes anyone in East Uletha (personally, I would prefer that we have basic "ground rules") -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) fine by me --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) it was just a comment. In the past/for the old organization, this point was not clear. But in my point of few, it turns everything much more complicated and questionable if, e.g. anarchies, can join. Looking at NATO and EU, you might exclude some of its members--Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:55, 21 January 2023 (UTC) agreed --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) This would probably exclude Blönland because the monarch retains extensive powers and it has a privileged nobility system, with some seats in the parliament being hereditary and nobles having additional legal rights. CaribbeanIslandMapper (talk) 12:01, 16 February 2023 (UTC) Sapvuodma is trying to fulfill most of the human rights. --DT_Planner (talk)
Fundamental Services Agreement	Each member state must ensure, to the greatest extent possible, that all of its citizens and permanent residents have access to: Emergency services, including police, fire, and paramedic services Clean drinking water Emergency healthcare Free primary and secondary education for all resident minors	Anonymous21 (talk) 00:42, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	okay--Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC) fine by me --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) good! --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) agreed --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Collective Agencies Agreement	Each member state must participate in funding for agencies for the following purposes: Epidemiological and emerging disease prevention and response Identification of and response to threats from foreign adversaries Climate, environmental protection, and sustainability Preservation of human rights and democracy both within and beyond the Organisation Foreign diplomatic relations	Anonymous21 (talk) 00:52, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	okay--Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC) fine by me--Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) ok --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) agreed --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Open Borders Agreement	Free travel between all member states	Anonymous21 (talk) 00:52, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	visa free travel could be a first step, no borders and free trade could be additional treaties which does not have to be ratified by all members--Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC) It doesn't seem like there a lot of members that share physical borders, so a group-wide open borders might be impractical or not very helpful. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) but freedom of movement is applicable. countries that share land borders doesn't need checkpoints and other countries can have citizens of any member state come live in them. It can create interesting mapping influences -- Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) currently Izaland has border controls at all the boundaries, so for now I think that a visa free policy could be enough. --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) visa free i can agree with; complete open borders would be a step to far for now --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) Blönland has border control on every border CaribbeanIslandMapper (talk) 12:01, 16 February 2023 (UTC) I agree with visa free travel, but complete open borders only apply with certain countries. --DT_Planner (talk)
Founding agreement (better, e.g. historic name should be found)	must be ratified by a member to join no military agression against other members acceptance of borders (naval and on land) between member states visa-free travel for citizens of member states (border controls still active) acceptance of economic zones and interests of each member state, participation within national laws possible common representation abroad by EUOIA offices/embassies if no member representation available ... Additional agreements can be proposed and ratified between members to intensify the level of cooperation.	Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	might be based on a precursor agreement, e.g. a fishery agreement--Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC) Like it --Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) I think we should start from there. If we establish a timeline it will be easier to build the organization around it and will allow new members to know when their country entered the organization --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) it could be also something planned before the big war, maybe during the second industrial revolution? --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) What is the time period of the "big war"? Is it like 1940s-1950s ish? -- Anonymous21 (talk) 21:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Maybe we start with this and then add individual treaties that individual states can opt out of? -- Anonymous21 (talk) 21:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC) There is so far no consensus on the big war and how it impacted the region. So my idea was to start without considering the war... --Mstr (talk) (talk) 22:28, 21 January 2023 (UTC) So then let's not worry about the war for now -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:17, 22 January 2023 (UTC) agreed --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Eastern Common Market (Ecomar)	free trade agreement between members common representation of economic interests abroad -> potential lost of national autonomy (economic sector) coordinated trading strategy -> potential lost of national autonomy (economic sector) ...	Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	This could be helpful, my only concern is that labor could become dominated by a country or countries with lower costs, which could hurt everyone else's manufacturing sectors. So I do think we should establish some sort of minimum wage (probably relative to local cost of living) to mitigate that. Other than that, I'm good with it. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) fine by me --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) supposing Izaland would be one of the largest economies in EUOIA, I would see it as quite protective towards its economy and market. --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Probably a step to far for me --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) No, since Sapvuodma is one of the largest oil producers and the large fishing industry would be greatly affected by environmental restrictions. --DT_Planner (talk)
EU Transportation Normalization Act	normalization of means of transport (as far as possible)	Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	So are we thinking like standardized rail gagues here? -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) fine by me --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) I had planned a kind of Pan-East-Ulethan railway network, including long distance passenger trains. I am very interested in helping in the transport sector, among the others --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) I think a collective rail network would be very beneficial and visible on the map, sounds like a really good idea. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:17, 22 January 2023 (UTC) probably can agree on (don't know the details) --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) most nations use standard gauge, there might be Karolia with another gauge. What about the electric current? Mergania switched, I think in 2017, after discussion with Reeland from 15 kV 16.7 Hz to 25 kV 50 Hz, Izaland uses 3000 V DC. I think we will fail in "standardization" here. It will be rather to provide some information.--Mstr (talk) (talk) 15:19, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Global Education Act	free and easy exchange of students, set up school exchanges and student exchange programs exchange with other countries outside the organization under the same conditionsempty	Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	I've never thought of that idea, but that seems like something that would help prepare students to participate in the group and global economies. I like it! -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) fine by me --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) A kind of Erasmus program? We should then find an alternative name to call this international student mobility system. But the idea is nice! --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) agreed --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) agreed --DT_Planner (talk)
EU Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone	establishment and enforcement of a nuclear weapon free zone in Eastern Uletha	Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	Makes sense unless there are other significant and/or opposing powers that have nuclear weapons, then maybe we would want the group to have nuclear capabilities that can be used only by the authorization of all members? But at the same time there are probably other big states (Federal States of Archanta) that we would be generally aligned with that have nuclear weapons. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) since nuclear balance would be hard to work out, it is better to assume for the first step that besides the FSA there is no other nuclear power. If you start to consider all countries which claim to have nuclear weapons, you can stop any other action...--Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:55, 21 January 2023 (UTC) agreed --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) Blönland had a nuclear program in the 20th century and it was certainly not completely shut down but is continued covertly. CaribbeanIslandMapper (talk) 12:01, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Research collaboration	possible field of collaboration antarctic expeditions aerospace / space agency	Mstr (talk) (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	Definitely -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) fine by me --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) of course; I had already started thinking about something in this field for Izaland. It would keep its own national programs, as well as collaborations with the larger EUOIA agencies --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) agreed --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) agreed, Sapvuodma would have a fundamental role in the Antarctic program, since there are many experts on the subject and the climate of Sapvuodma is somewhat similar to Antarctica's one. --DT_Planner (talk)
Common currency	Shared currency to support economies of all members	Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC)	This could be especially helpful because none of the members have huge economies, which would probably make this more beneficial to all members and would reduce the risk of economic troubles in one country causing a significant downturn in all members. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC) on board with that. our small-ish economies can benefit from that --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) would be not the first step, but for members who are interested okay --Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:55, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Izaland would keep using Etsi, one of the main world's financial markets (similarly to the UK using the Pound when it was in the EU) --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Disagree for now; I like Neberly to have it's own currency --Antoon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC) Re: Antoon - At this point I think this would be something that some members join in if they want to but they don't have to -- Anonymous21 (talk) 00:58, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Sapvuodma would keep using Kruvdna since the economy is very stable. --DT_Planner (talk)
Mutual aid and security treaty	Nations agree to come to the aid of other member nations in the event of natural disasters or other humanitarian crises. Nations agree to collaborate in matters of national and international security. Criminals of member nations are not given refuge in other member nations. This might overlap with the mutual protection treaty?	Gubble (talk) 21:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)	Like it -- Anonymous21 (talk) 00:58, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
	empty row for copy&paste
	empty row for copy&paste
	empty row for copy&paste
	empty row for copy&paste

How to Set up Treaties

Proposal	yes	no	don't know	discussion/comments
We should set up a single "founding" treaty and then we can add additional treaties from there			Anonymous21 (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)	Yes, but it really depends on what this founding agreement includes... shouldn't go too far, should not exclude countries or projects which do not participate at the moment, but should also provide a good basis for further collaboration--Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:05, 22 January 2023 (UTC) Re: Mstr -- I agree -- Anonymous21 (talk) 00:58, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
We just do individual treaties on different subjects. The EUOIA would be a set of treaties involving mostly the same countries, but with some variation.	Anonymous21 (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)			I'm kind of thinking here about how the real-world EU has treaties like the Schengen Area (open borders) and Eurozone (using Euro as currency) that involve most (but not all) EU members and include some other European states as well. - Anonymous21 (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Naming

The acronym "EUOIA" should be kept since it is well known.

yes	no	don't know	Discussion
Mstr (talk) (talk) 19:05, 14 January 2023 (UTC) Tule00 (talk) 13:07, 15 January 2023 (UTC) Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Antoon (talk) 11:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC)		Anonymous21 (talk) 06:25, 22 January 2023 (UTC)	Based on the difficulties we seem to be having with finding a new name that fits the acronym, maybe we could change the acronym to something like EUU (East Ulethan Union). But I would still prefer to keep the old acronym if we can find a name that still flows well. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:25, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

"Independent" in the name is important for me.

yes	don't know	no	Discussion
For my country (Izaland) I would like it to have a certain degree of independence, so probably if the EUOIA does not go beyond what is not the EU in RW it would be ok.Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Antoon (talk) 11:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC)	Mstr (talk) (talk) 19:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	Anonymous21 (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC) Tule00 (talk) 13:07, 15 January 2023 (UTC) Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)	I think it acts as a great "filler" word if we're trying to keep the current acronym but other than that is kind of pointless lol (Anonymous21 (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)) Agreed with Anonymous21, not crucial but I don't mind it --Tule00 (talk) 13:07, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

"Allies" should be replaced.

yes	don't know	no	Discussion
Mstr (talk) (talk) 19:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC) Anonymous21 (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC) Tule00 (talk) 13:07, 15 January 2023 (UTC) Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)	Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Antoon (talk) 11:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC)	Gubble (talk) 21:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)	I personally like the idea that the organization was formed to replace a previous alliance, after an as-of-yet unwritten major war. Gubble (talk) 21:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC) The reason why I want to leave the military origin is because it will be very difficult to establish something based on an unwritten history. Do you have any ideas how to circumvent this? So far, there was neither a war nor we do know anything about different roles in it. But I'm open to constructive ideas how to deal with it--Mstr (talk) (talk) 23:13, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

"Eastern" should be replaced with "East"

yes	don't know	no	discussion
Anonymous21 (talk) 06:36, 22 January 2023 (UTC) Gubble (talk) 21:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)	Antoon (talk) 11:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC)		In my opinion, "Eastern Ulethan" sounds kind of clunky and "East Ulethan" would mean the same thing. And, at least here in the U.S., we just put the "an" ending on the last word in a place name in this context (eg. North Dakotan for someone/something from North Dakota, West Virginian for someone/something from West Virginia, etc.). So because "East Uletha" is a specific thing - a continent in this case - I think it would make the most sense to use "East Ulethan Organization ..." rather than "Eastern Ulethan Organization". -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:36, 22 January 2023 (UTC) Thanks, a very useful hint from a native speaker. When I try to find a name/expression, I google to find if it exists or not. Regarding organization names of this type, I found, e.g. Southern African Development Community, Association of South Eastern Asian Nations. --Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:47, 22 January 2023 (UTC) Yeah, I'm speaking from my experience as a native speaker from the US. It could be different around the world. From what I understand though, it usually has to do with whether the "South", "East", etc. is part of the name of the place. For example, "Southern African" would refer to something from the southern part of Africa, while "South African" would refer to something from the specific country of South Africa. So my reasoning is that "East Ulethan" refers to something from the continent of East Uletha while "Eastern Ulethan" refers to something from the eastern part of Uletha. In all honesty, it's kind of splitting hairs and most native speakers would know what you mean either way, but that's just the way I think of it as a native speaker. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 00:58, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Old name:

• Eastern Ulethan Organisation of Independent Allies

Some ideas for the new name:

• East(ern) Ulethan Organization of Independent Associates --Mstr (talk) (talk) 19:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Eastern Ulethan Organisation for Independence and Accord --Anonymous21 (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

"independence" a little bit too pronounced --Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:39, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

• Eastern Ulethan Organisation for International Accord --Anonymous21 (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

I like this as well Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

• Eastern Ulethan Opportunity and Intermutuality Alliance --Anonymous21 (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Eastern Ulethan Organization of Intergovernmental Affiliates/ Associates --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I like it --Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:39, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Other issues

Flag proposals

Flag	By	Comments
Rising sun symbols the East, green color to differ from any kind of EU flag Rising sun symbols the East, green color to differ from any kind of EU flag Rising sun symbols the East, green color to differ from any kind of EU flag	Mstr (talk) (talk) 19:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)	too similar to the Japanese imperial banner in my opinion --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC) I added a second, slightly modified version, so the similarity is less.--Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:35, 21 January 2023 (UTC) To me, the 3rd flag doesn't make a lot of sense as far as the shapes. Is that supposed to be a sun? If so, why doesn't it have rays on its left side as well? -- Anonymous21 (talk) 22:42, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Flags are not pictures, so they do not have to show more than some symbols ... it was somewhat inspired by the Alormen flag, which I do like.--Mstr (talk) (talk) 00:40, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
An alternate version of the rising with more colors	Anonymous21 (talk) 05:50, 15 January 2023 (UTC)	yellow-orange combination is unusual
compass cardinal directions pointing towards the east with maritime colors to symbolize connection to the sea	Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)	the symbol reminds me of NATO, the triangle is close to FSA I agree that it looks far too close to NATO flag; the central compass is basically a double copy of the NATO compass -- Anonymous21 (talk) 22:42, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Rising sun in the east with ocean and land Another version with two mountains Another version with a small change (one ray of sun in the bottom right)	Anonymous21 (talk) 22:36, 21 January 2023 (UTC)	Of these three, my personal favorite is the 2nd one -- Anonymous21 (talk) 22:38, 21 January 2023 (UTC) Are there any RW flags like these? Do we have any recognizable mountains in the region?--Mstr (talk) (talk) 00:40, 22 January 2023 (UTC) I can't think of any obvious RW flags like it; I came up with the design on my own. And there are mountains, but no prominent ones, so that's a good point. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 06:25, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Stylized shape of East Uletha with sun	Antoon (talk) 11:21, 22 January 2023 (UTC)	I'm not a designer of flags, but i hope it makes clear my idea: the stylized shape of East Uletha with the sun that comes back from other proposals. Maybe someone else can make a better version. Antoon (talk) 11:21, 22 January 2023 (UTC) The idea is clear! Thank you for your contribution, it illustrates the shape of the east very well. By the way, I can also see an "E" in the flag... --Mstr (talk) (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2023 (UTC) I like your idea! -- Anonymous21 (talk) 01:17, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
My take on Antoon's design	Anonymous21 (talk) 00:11, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
My proposal: a rising sun (without rays) from the ocean, and a blue color to symbolize the color of the sea, ad well as to recall the RW EU flag; simple and recognizable	Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 13:29, 24 January 2023 (UTC)	Ooh, that's cool! I like it! - Anonymous21 (talk) 00:11, 25 January 2023 (UTC) LOVE it as well! only concern is why two shades of orange? --Ifgus (talk) 17:31, 25 January 2023 (UTC) Thank you! The soft orange line would represent a sunrise tint on the sea, but it could have the same colour of the sun. Do you think it is better?--Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 00:19, 26 January 2023 (UTC) In my opinion maybe we could make the orange line a bit more yellow so you can easily tell them apart? But I still really like it! -- Anonymous21 (talk) 05:45, 26 January 2023 (UTC) Thank you for the proposal! Maybe two issues: One "requirement" discussed in the past was that it should not resemble RW institutions, in this case the EU. That's why I tried to not use blue as in the old wiki. And the flag porposal is quite close to Izaland's flag, which is not a problem in general, but wouldn't be realistic from a historical point of view if there is no reason for it. --Mstr (talk) (talk) 00:53, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Just to show how the flag proposals look like in the wiki:
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
EUOIA
[[File:|28px]] EUOIA
[[File:|28px]] EUOIA
xxx
xxx
xxx

Anthem

Would we want some sort of EUOIA anthem? I wrote one for Kara. -- Anonymous21 (talk) 01:16, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

could be a nice touch, but from which country came the poet? ;) --Ifgus (talk) 23:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Founding Treaty

Since we seem to at least be on board with the idea of creating a founding treaty, what if we start there?

Founding Treaty Drafts

Here are some ideas for the main points of the founding treaty

• Creates the EUOIA (what the acronym means TBD) from the following countries:
  • Brevinfeld
  • Neberly
  • Boscunis
  • Glaster
  • Kara
  • Alved
  • Reeland
  • Izaland
• Allows other countries to join the union with approval from all other members.
• Two kinds of treaties:
  • Mandatory treaties (includes the Founding Treaty)
    • Membership in the EUOIA will be revoked if any member state knowingly and intentionally violates any Mandatory Treaty
    • Must be approved by all member states and must be explicitly designated a mandatory treaty at time of ratification
    • Provisions of mandatory treaties (including the Founding Treaty) may be changed with the approval of all member states
  • Opt-in treaties:
    • Member states are encouraged, but not obligated, to participate in opt-in treaties
    • Member states may leave an opt-in treaty at any time
    • Additional members can be added to opt-in treaties with the approval of all members of that specific treaty
    • Each treaty must include at least 50% of member states to be an official EUOIA treaty
      • Member states are free to make treaties with other member states, but a treaty must include at least 50% of member states to be officially administered and endorsed by the EUOIA
    • A treaty is considered opt-in unless otherwise stated
      • For example, a member state could opt out of a treaty initially including all member states unless the treaty is explicitly designated a mandatory treaty.
    • Provisions of opt-in treaties may be changed with the approval of all members of that treaty
• Common Defense
  • An attack on any member state is considered an attack on all member states.
  • A military attack from a member state to another member state is grounds for immediate expulsion from the EUOIA.
  • If any member becomes aware of a credible threat to another member state, that information must be shared with all other member states as soon as reasonably possible

This is just a brainstorming list. If you have any thoughts, comments, ideas, etc. please leave them below

-- Anonymous21 (talk) 01:15, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Free Association / Observer-type membership

Blönland is interested in cooperating with its neighbors but is neither qualified nor wishing to join the EUOIA as a full member.

• It has a strong monarch with executive powers, and the throne is inherited only through the male line (unlike most other monarchies where it probably is equal primogeniture)
• It has a nobility system with legal hereditary privileges, including hereditary seats in the parliament
• It consists of two culturally distinct regions that were historically separate countries (Blönland proper and Remsfalen-Lüningen) which have different religions (Catholic and Protestant), significant autonomy with devolved government on both sides, and certainly different opinions about joining the EUOIA. The north wants to become closer to the western neighbor Remsfalen (to which it used to belong in the past) and joining would allow fishermen to fish along the coasts of the neighbors (rather than the relatively short coast of Blönland). The south is more isolationist and protectionist (it has a strong industry and fears that joining the common market would endanger it), and many people still have negative opinions on Izaland.
• It has very conservative values and there are official state churches, and many will see the EUOIA as too liberal. Men and women still have different rights according to law, for example.
• The King might be personally opposed because he doesn't want to do what would feel like giving up his country's independence.

So, is there a type of observer or limited membership that Blönland can apply for, with provisions for military participation, visa free travel but opting out of the human rights treaty (because it contradicts Blönnish law) for example, and allowing trade tariffs? CaribbeanIslandMapper (talk) 12:01, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for the slow response. That's something we could talk about; it would probably look like a partial alliance but without the full membership, as you were saying. - Anonymous21 (talk) 00:07, 6 March 2023 (UTC)