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Greetings, mappers of OGF.
Greetings, mappers of OGF.


We wish to present an overview for the proposed new collaborative territory, located in UL02c, known as Kalkara. The collab would provide a homeland on OGF for the Maltese theme. Since Maltese culture and language are very complex, its background lore will necessarily involve other regional collabs. Therefore, we are posting here to ensure that any appropriate discussion can be had. This is a project that we (KAB and Alessa) plan to move forward, but we want this to be a fun project for the broader community. This discussion hopes to gauge interest in this project and solicit additional feedback to integrate it into Western Uletha.
We wish to present an overview for [[Collab:Kalkara|collaborative territory known as Kalkara]], located in UL02c. The collab provides a homeland on OGF for the Maltese theme. Since Maltese culture and language are very complex, its background lore will necessarily involve other regional collabs. This is a project that we ({{OGF user|KAB}} and {{OGF user|Alessa}}) are coordinating, but we want this to be a fun project for the broader community. This discussion allows us space to coordinate different elements of the project.


==Organization==
==Discussion==
The collab would be led by {{OGF user|KAB}} and {{OGF user|Alessa}}. Users that wish to participate would be asked to define their proposed work and then granted permission to edit in that area. There would be no reserved areas; if you map it in Kalkara, it could be edited down the line by other users as the project matures. To prevent edit conflicts, users would be notified of and encouraged to be mindful of others in the area.
All official discussion must take place on the forum and not offsite. If you have specific questions you are welcome to message KAB or Alessa privately.
 
* I wonder how populous the state would be. I believe something around 3-5.5 mln. should go well. Nevertheless, it would be quite pleasant to see another well-planned collab appearing on OGF. [[User:Sudo91|Sudo91]] ([[User talk:Sudo91|talk]]) 08:18, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Looks like a solid plan! The history fits perfectly with Arion's and we can sort out exactly how the two countries would have interacted once I figure out Arion's history, current status, and development in more detail. And of course, I'll contribute at least a little bit when the project opens :) --[[User:Lithium|Lithium-Ion]] ([[User talk:Lithium|talk]]) 18:27, 4 December 2022 (UTC)


==Theme==
==Community projects==
Kalkara, ''Il-Kalkara'' natively, is a collab based on a Maltese theme with a few notable differences. To account for the unique combination of cultural influences on the Maltese theme, the history of the territory does parallel the real-world country to a degree. There are expected to be important historically walled cities along the strait, prevalence of Christic religious institutions, land divided in a pattern not unlike the results of an open-field system, prominent use of the Kalki (Maltese) language with Ingerish (English) permitted under certain circumstances, and lots of historic sites that would be from most periods of history.
===Flag proposals===
Fellow mappers, we would like to start soliciting ideas for a Kalkaran flag! There are a couple things to consider keeping in mind with the design: it should be relatively simple and with easy-to-manufacture dyes, since it would likely have evolved from the symbology of the medieval Christic (Ortholic) knights. So, some type of easily drawn decorative cross with simple colors will go a long way. Do not worry about the flag being "boring" or overly simplistic.


At the same time, Kalkara will break from Malta in that it is an important international crossroads along the strait. It will have a major metropolitan area along that strait that itself will be more populous than the country of Malta. There will also be some rail (primarily freight) and motorway infrastructure, but it will not be as developed as most western-European themed territories. Malta may be very car-centric, but Kalkara will offer some variety in transportation modes.
It isn't required, but it would be nice to have some type of symbolism that can invoke the Cross of the Order of St. John (often called the Maltese cross) or other Maltese symbol to connect the territory to real-world Malta; we are not necessarily looking to replicate the symbol directly of it but perhaps a variation on it.


===Territorial history===
Have fun! &mdash; [[User:Alessa|Alessa]] <sub>([[User talk:Alessa|talk]])</sub> 16:02, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
* '''Before 1st Century''': Kalkara was inhabited by ancient peoples that eventually were subsumed into the Hellanesian world, as they spread across the region. The old strait city would have been moderately cosmopolitan and an eventual target for Romantish interests.
* '''1st–7th Centuries''': The Romantish took control around 40 (about the time the Uthyran countries fell under Romantish control). Christicism arrived and supplanted polytheistic practices. Romantish control nominally lasted through the late 7th century, but the area would have been quasi-independent by this point. The Romantish named the strait city ''Calcarium'' for being on limestone bluffs and where precious white lime was quarried. It eventually became applied to the entire domain.
* '''7th Century''': A Mazanic invasion of the land results in the annexation of Kalkara to Mazan. The language shifts during this point to a Semitic language with a small Hellanesian-Romantish substrata remaining. Over time, it becomes an independent emirate.
* '''13th Century''': As some Ulethan countries start looking to colonize overseas, an organized band of Ortholic knights, backed by Castellán, Franqueterre, Plevia, and Navenna (among others) wrested control of the Kalkaran Strait. These knights were the Order of St. Openge (''L-Ordni ta' San Openġe''). Despite a few subsequent Mazanic incursions, the land was held by the knights. The earliest grand masters were Plevian, and they promoted use of the Plevian language among the elites. The knights also reinforce Ortholic Christicism and open the strait to the Ulethan powers. The powers allow the knights to control the strait as a 'neutral party' to prevent one power from exerting the most control. This does cause some political intrigue among the grand masters, however.
* '''Early 1800s''': Following a power struggle between two claimants to being grand master, Plevia invades out of fear of outsized Castellanese influences and the perceived inability of the knights to fend off another Mazanic incursion through the straits. The knights ask Ingerland for help, who repels the Plevian invasion but asserts their control over the strait. The Ingerish use this as a springboard to Khaiwoon and Gobrassanya; the knights are reduced to a caretaker role over the strait territory with no real authority.
* '''1950s''': With the end of the Great War, the Ingerish revoke control over the strait as part of the Pax Nova. The Order of St. Openge regains their control over the territory. Unlike before, the knights are largely made up of Kalkaran individuals. With Kalki as the dominant and official language, the knights institute a governmental structure that devolves most subnational positions to democratic elections. Outwardly, they resume their neutrality toward most nations, allowing access to the strait for peaceful means.
* '''Now''': As an independent nation, with a restored Knighthood, Kalkara is currently led by the first native Kalkaran Grand Master in history. Kalkara possesses a moderately advanced economy, with the most revenue being generated from trade (via the strait), as well as tourism. It has an HDI around 0.88–0.91, with most of the wealth concentrated along the strait. Culturally, the nation remains highly religious and very traditional-minded in a lot of ways. Liberalization of the religion is constant but slow, and it is a huge part of Kalkara's politics. The nation welcomes the role of global crossroads but doesn't want other nations imposing their cultural mores. It is particularly wary of foreign commercial influences attempting to dominate the country because of its trade-focused economy.


===Language===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
''Kalki'' (Maltese) is the official language of the territory, but ''Ingerish'' (English) is used in governmental and administrative matters. In practice, Kalki is the dominant language of the territory and will be used on the map for most matters. Ingerish may find a minor presence for some commercial matters. Mappers not comfortable with working with the real-world Maltese language are still welcome to participate. Labels in the appropriate language can be added by another user.
|-
! No. !! Flag !! Description
|-
| '''1'''||
[[File:Kalkara flag proposal - PaintedBlue.png|250px]]<br><br>[[File:Kalkara flag proposal 2 - PaintedBlue.png|250px]]
||Hi! This is my proposal for a Kalkaran flag. It is a simple red cross on a white field, with a symbol that seems to be between a Maltese cross and a Cross pattée in the canton. I chose red since it seemed like a easy to make dye, however it also bears similarity with the red on the actual Maltese flag. I would be willing to change the color if needed. [[User:PaintedBlue|PaintedBlue]] ([[User talk:PaintedBlue|talk]]) 19:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::I created a suggestion these days too, but as PaintedBlue proposal is so much better than my one, I will keep it simply as [[File:5band_kalkahm.png|30px]] [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=14/18.5087/56.4445&layers=B Aħmara] flag, hehehe ''(Yes, even as an "municipal" flag, I still will improve the coat of arms, trying to make it better)''  --  [[User:BMSOUZA|BMSOUZA]] ([[User talk:BMSOUZA|talk]]) 13:48, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
::Hello again. Inspired by KAB, I would also like to present a version of the flag with a yellow cross rather than a white one, with the yellow representing the same meaning as on KAB's proposal. [[User:PaintedBlue|PaintedBlue]] ([[User talk:PaintedBlue|talk]]) 21:16, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
|-
| '''2'''||
[[File:KalkaraBixel.png|250px]]
||I present a very simple design, a red and white saltire. I feel like the Maltese cross could take a role similar to that of St. Andrew's cross, so instead of having a symbol resembling the cross and the knights, it can be represented through a pattern, which can be used for various other stuff aside from the flag. Because I personally find flags with borders cool, I included two variations for this flag, in blue and black, if anyone prefers those. [[User:Bixelkoven|Bixelkoven]] ([[User talk:Bixelkoven|talk]]) 23:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
|-
|'''3'''
|[[File:Kalkara-flag.png|250px]]
|I propose a tricolour of white, red, and black, plus a yellow Maltese cross. Generally easy to come by dyes, each colour can represent different things, which can be decided at a later date. The yellow represents the Order, and the providence bestowed upon them centuries ago when they were sent to seize the lands of Kalkara from Mazan. Additionally, any flag that does not get chosen as the national flag will more than likely have a place as a provincial or municipal flag somewhere in the nation. [[User:KAB|KAB]] ([[User talk:KAB|talk]]) 00:57, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
|-
| '''4'''
|[[File:Flag_Kalkara_Aiki_Proposal.svg|250px]]
| This proposal is a basic reuse of this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Breton_flags#Religious_flags Breton flag]. The flag has been rotated 90°, slightly resized, and black replaced by a shade of carmine, colour that may have historically been an expensive and exotic dye, fitting a seafaring nation. The ratio is 1:2. --[[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 21:58, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
|-
|}


==Territorial layout==
These all look like great ideas! Thank you, PaintedBlue, Bixelkoven, KAB, and Aiki for your submissions! KAB and I have had a chance to chat about the flags, but we didn't want to make a decision without fielding some feedback on the four options. One thing we will do is to use all four in some way. There will be a national flag, a flag for the strait (largest) city, flags for the second and third largest cities, and either military flags or flags for a historic capital or important historic center.
The strait is the primary focus of the territory. The largest urban area will occupy the location presently labeled on the map as the strait city. Its metropolitan area will straddle both sides of the strait itself. A motorway bridge and rail tunnel are expected to traverse the strait in the vicinity of the urban area. Other clusters of population will exist along the strait. A historic fortified city is likely on the northern shore of the strait at the easternmost promontory. A map for detailed organization will be produced later, as coordination with neighbors and planning of cities is more refined, but a preliminary sketch is available to provide a starting point for discussion. The southern interior should remain largely agricultural and with large swaths of forested lands. Dense urbanization should be largely confined to the gray area on the map, along the strait itself.


The preliminary sketch for the territory is shown here:
Does anyone have any thoughts about which they think work best in these situations? We'll give a few days for feedback. &mdash; [[User:Alessa|Alessa]] <sub>([[User talk:Alessa|talk]])</sub> 14:57, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
[[File:Kalkara preliminary sketch.png|600px]]
:Some thoughts and suggestions on the flags, as an outsider:
:* I think Flag 1 would be most appropriate for an "older" or historic version of the flag, based on the designs involved. Could even work in some symbology regarding the white vs. yellow cross, where the yellow cross version is used only in a certain circumstance (e.g., when a ruler is present the yellow cross version is flown over the seat of government and the "empty" white cross version flies when the ruler is elsewhere).
:* Flag 2 I would suggest be the military battle flag, given how much of the body of the flag is red and how easily it's visible from long distances. Could even keep the different colored borders to represent different branches (so the navy flies the flag with a blue border, the ground forces use the version with a black border, etc.).
:* Flag 3 would make a good national flag. It's simple and straightforward, but there's plenty of opportunities to apply symbolism to each of the four colors used.
:* Flag 4 would make a good city flag, in my opinion. I also like how the negative space essentially creates a second, interlocking Maltese cross.
:--[[User:TheMayor|TheMayor]] ([[User talk:TheMayor|talk]]) 16:01, 23 January 2023 (UTC)


==Things to be decided as the project unfolds==
::*As said before, I like very very much the Flag 1 (by [[User:PaintedBlue|PaintedBlue]]) as national flag. A simple design, and a simple maltese cross.
Those that participate in the mapping will be encouraged to help 'fill in the blanks' with history, government, and territorial development. For example, a list of historic grand masters will be needed to populate historic sites, manors, and municipal toponymy. Positions of other historically fortified settlements in the 'interior' of the country will also be needed. Other elements that need to be determined will be addressed as they arise with mappers that are active in the territory.
::*I would use Flag 4 (by [[User:Aiki|Aiki]]) as a military or naval flag maybe...
::*Flag 3 (by [[User:KAB|KAB]]) looks very good as a national capital flag.
::*Flag 2 (by [[User:Bixelkoven|Bixelkoven]]) is not "ugly" - as I use the same design with other colours as a province flag in Novakia hehehe - but I think it is very simple. Would fit well to any big city or even a state/ province/ region/ etc...
::--[[User:BMSOUZA|BMSOUZA]] ([[User talk:BMSOUZA|talk]]) 02:21, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


==Discussion==
:::Thank you both for the feedback! I will acknowledge that my personal opinion (not speaking on behalf of KAB here) was leaning towards flags 3 and 4 for the national flag, with a little favoring of 4 for the national. My thought was to make KAB's flag the flag of the strait city, PaintedBlue's the historic flag or flag of another large city, and Bixelkoven's the naval/military flag or of a large city. That said, I know KAB originally had some thoughts different than mine, so I'm going to give him the freedom as the other coordinator to craft his final proposal for how to distribute these. They're all nice, so we can definitely find some use for them even if not national. &mdash; [[User:Alessa|Alessa]] <sub>([[User talk:Alessa|talk]])</sub> 13:55, 27 January 2023 (UTC
All official discussion must take place on the forum and not offsite. If you have specific questions you are welcome to message KAB or Alessa privately.




* I wonder how populous the state would be. I believe something around 3-5.5 mln. should go well. Nevertheless, it would be quite pleasant to see another well-planned collab appearing on OGF. [[User:Sudo91|Sudo91]] ([[User talk:Sudo91|talk]]) 08:18, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi all, thank you for your submissions and your suggestions, and my apologies for a belayed response/verdict. As of this message, the official use for each flag is as follows:
:*Flag 1 (by [[User:PaintedBlue|PaintedBlue]]) will be used as the flag for a large city along the strait.
:*Flag 2 (by [[User:Bixelkoven|Bixelkoven]]) will become the official flags for the Kalkaran navy and military. The blue bordure will be the naval flag, and the black will be the military flag.
:*Flag 3, (by yours truly) will become the national flag of Kalkara.
:*Flag 4 (by [[User:Aiki|Aiki]]) will become the official flag for the strait city. The religious connotation behind this flag will play into the city's past and present day.
:If a need arises, the usage of each flag is subject to change, but as of now and for the foreseeable future, this shall be final. Thank you all again for submitting and commenting, and I hope to see more of you with each future post about Kalkara.  
:~ [[User:KAB|KAB]] ([[User talk:KAB|talk]]) 06:57, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 08:22, 7 February 2023

Forums → Official collaboratives → Official collaboratives/Kalkara


Greetings, mappers of OGF.

We wish to present an overview for collaborative territory known as Kalkara, located in UL02c. The collab provides a homeland on OGF for the Maltese theme. Since Maltese culture and language are very complex, its background lore will necessarily involve other regional collabs. This is a project that we (KAB and Alessa) are coordinating, but we want this to be a fun project for the broader community. This discussion allows us space to coordinate different elements of the project.

Discussion

All official discussion must take place on the forum and not offsite. If you have specific questions you are welcome to message KAB or Alessa privately.

  • I wonder how populous the state would be. I believe something around 3-5.5 mln. should go well. Nevertheless, it would be quite pleasant to see another well-planned collab appearing on OGF. Sudo91 (talk) 08:18, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Looks like a solid plan! The history fits perfectly with Arion's and we can sort out exactly how the two countries would have interacted once I figure out Arion's history, current status, and development in more detail. And of course, I'll contribute at least a little bit when the project opens :) --Lithium-Ion (talk) 18:27, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Community projects

Flag proposals

Fellow mappers, we would like to start soliciting ideas for a Kalkaran flag! There are a couple things to consider keeping in mind with the design: it should be relatively simple and with easy-to-manufacture dyes, since it would likely have evolved from the symbology of the medieval Christic (Ortholic) knights. So, some type of easily drawn decorative cross with simple colors will go a long way. Do not worry about the flag being "boring" or overly simplistic.

It isn't required, but it would be nice to have some type of symbolism that can invoke the Cross of the Order of St. John (often called the Maltese cross) or other Maltese symbol to connect the territory to real-world Malta; we are not necessarily looking to replicate the symbol directly of it but perhaps a variation on it.

Have fun! — Alessa (talk) 16:02, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

No. Flag Description
1

Kalkara flag proposal - PaintedBlue.png

Kalkara flag proposal 2 - PaintedBlue.png

Hi! This is my proposal for a Kalkaran flag. It is a simple red cross on a white field, with a symbol that seems to be between a Maltese cross and a Cross pattée in the canton. I chose red since it seemed like a easy to make dye, however it also bears similarity with the red on the actual Maltese flag. I would be willing to change the color if needed. PaintedBlue (talk) 19:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
I created a suggestion these days too, but as PaintedBlue proposal is so much better than my one, I will keep it simply as 5band kalkahm.png Aħmara flag, hehehe (Yes, even as an "municipal" flag, I still will improve the coat of arms, trying to make it better) -- BMSOUZA (talk) 13:48, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Hello again. Inspired by KAB, I would also like to present a version of the flag with a yellow cross rather than a white one, with the yellow representing the same meaning as on KAB's proposal. PaintedBlue (talk) 21:16, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
2

KalkaraBixel.png

I present a very simple design, a red and white saltire. I feel like the Maltese cross could take a role similar to that of St. Andrew's cross, so instead of having a symbol resembling the cross and the knights, it can be represented through a pattern, which can be used for various other stuff aside from the flag. Because I personally find flags with borders cool, I included two variations for this flag, in blue and black, if anyone prefers those. Bixelkoven (talk) 23:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
3 Kalkara-flag.png I propose a tricolour of white, red, and black, plus a yellow Maltese cross. Generally easy to come by dyes, each colour can represent different things, which can be decided at a later date. The yellow represents the Order, and the providence bestowed upon them centuries ago when they were sent to seize the lands of Kalkara from Mazan. Additionally, any flag that does not get chosen as the national flag will more than likely have a place as a provincial or municipal flag somewhere in the nation. KAB (talk) 00:57, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
4 Flag Kalkara Aiki Proposal.svg This proposal is a basic reuse of this Breton flag. The flag has been rotated 90°, slightly resized, and black replaced by a shade of carmine, colour that may have historically been an expensive and exotic dye, fitting a seafaring nation. The ratio is 1:2. --Aiki (talk) 21:58, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

These all look like great ideas! Thank you, PaintedBlue, Bixelkoven, KAB, and Aiki for your submissions! KAB and I have had a chance to chat about the flags, but we didn't want to make a decision without fielding some feedback on the four options. One thing we will do is to use all four in some way. There will be a national flag, a flag for the strait (largest) city, flags for the second and third largest cities, and either military flags or flags for a historic capital or important historic center.

Does anyone have any thoughts about which they think work best in these situations? We'll give a few days for feedback. — Alessa (talk) 14:57, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Some thoughts and suggestions on the flags, as an outsider:
  • I think Flag 1 would be most appropriate for an "older" or historic version of the flag, based on the designs involved. Could even work in some symbology regarding the white vs. yellow cross, where the yellow cross version is used only in a certain circumstance (e.g., when a ruler is present the yellow cross version is flown over the seat of government and the "empty" white cross version flies when the ruler is elsewhere).
  • Flag 2 I would suggest be the military battle flag, given how much of the body of the flag is red and how easily it's visible from long distances. Could even keep the different colored borders to represent different branches (so the navy flies the flag with a blue border, the ground forces use the version with a black border, etc.).
  • Flag 3 would make a good national flag. It's simple and straightforward, but there's plenty of opportunities to apply symbolism to each of the four colors used.
  • Flag 4 would make a good city flag, in my opinion. I also like how the negative space essentially creates a second, interlocking Maltese cross.
--TheMayor (talk) 16:01, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
  • As said before, I like very very much the Flag 1 (by PaintedBlue) as national flag. A simple design, and a simple maltese cross.
  • I would use Flag 4 (by Aiki) as a military or naval flag maybe...
  • Flag 3 (by KAB) looks very good as a national capital flag.
  • Flag 2 (by Bixelkoven) is not "ugly" - as I use the same design with other colours as a province flag in Novakia hehehe - but I think it is very simple. Would fit well to any big city or even a state/ province/ region/ etc...
--BMSOUZA (talk) 02:21, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Thank you both for the feedback! I will acknowledge that my personal opinion (not speaking on behalf of KAB here) was leaning towards flags 3 and 4 for the national flag, with a little favoring of 4 for the national. My thought was to make KAB's flag the flag of the strait city, PaintedBlue's the historic flag or flag of another large city, and Bixelkoven's the naval/military flag or of a large city. That said, I know KAB originally had some thoughts different than mine, so I'm going to give him the freedom as the other coordinator to craft his final proposal for how to distribute these. They're all nice, so we can definitely find some use for them even if not national. — Alessa (talk) 13:55, 27 January 2023 (UTC


Hi all, thank you for your submissions and your suggestions, and my apologies for a belayed response/verdict. As of this message, the official use for each flag is as follows:
  • Flag 1 (by PaintedBlue) will be used as the flag for a large city along the strait.
  • Flag 2 (by Bixelkoven) will become the official flags for the Kalkaran navy and military. The blue bordure will be the naval flag, and the black will be the military flag.
  • Flag 3, (by yours truly) will become the national flag of Kalkara.
  • Flag 4 (by Aiki) will become the official flag for the strait city. The religious connotation behind this flag will play into the city's past and present day.
If a need arises, the usage of each flag is subject to change, but as of now and for the foreseeable future, this shall be final. Thank you all again for submitting and commenting, and I hope to see more of you with each future post about Kalkara.
~ KAB (talk) 06:57, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
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