Forum:Ingerland/Introduction to the project

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Prelude

Ingerland is a country in northwestern West Uletha and is the homeland of the OGF equivalent of the English language and culture. The main parallel to Ingerland is England, not the United Kingdom. Like England, Ingerland is a major historical colonial power which has influenced a immense amount of the OGF world, in every corner of the world. Because of that, Ingerland can be considered one of the most important countries for OGF's in-universe history. This forum page should help all interested people meet at one place to discuss everything about Ingerland in-world, from geography and geology, to infrastructure and beyond. Should it be necessary or easier, discussions will be broken out into subforums.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Territory applications will not be approved without considering the national plans which are discussed below.

Timeline

• Now: Discussion of critical points below begins; former colonies begin submitting a priority list of toponyms and monarchs to include in the project
• 01 May: Users may begin applying for a region of Ingerland, but no applications will be approved prior to 10 May to allow for initial discussions; active applicants will be given priority in the decision-making process over the broader community.
• No later than 10 May: Final decisions on outline of geology, hydrology, and topography
• 25 May: Input from former colonies ends

Discussion

Geology, Hydrology, and Topography

This will be the most important part for starting up the project. A well planned geography of a nation opens doors to a lot of things in the later stages of the project. Send in your suggestions, preferably using pictures and discuss!

There are certain aspects of the national geography that are already set in place: The northwestern boundary of Ingerland, with Nordurland, is mountainous. The land boundary with Kalm is hilly. The eastern estuary does have lowlands and marshlands similar to a partially drained landscape of The Fens The eastern river in Region 14 and eastward should not have a dramatic course change

Discussion

There should be at least a low mountain range running from north to south of the country, maybe on the more western side. It kinda shows a ridge pattern that follows the islands and western side of Nordurland, and this mountain range might have affected the climate of the country like a rainshadow effect in real-world England. Senju (talk) 09:45, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to? More generally, it might be worth making a sketch of highlands and lowlands. Yuanls (talk) 22:47, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I think the implication is either that the previous owner had a spine of glacial mountains, or something like the Pennines (which really aren't that rugged) would be desired here. I'm not taking a position on that either way, but it will need to be decided by the collective of mappers in Ingerland if there is anything notable and across regional borders. — Alessa _(talk) 23:28, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

You could always keep parts of the old north/south chain but they're more like sporadic hills, with gaps allowing for coast-to-coast corridors.--Fluffr Nuttr (talk) 00:06, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Just a note: from what was there before Andy left, the common border between all parts of his territories and Norðurland was completely mountainous. I have not mapped many details, but everything I did map so far took this into account. --EMKLI (talk) 20:11, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

In general the geology of Britain doesn't seem too important: outside coastal areas, geology is mostly expressed though low hills in much of England (outside the north, where there's more geological variation). The expression Ingerish geology has on the landscape could therefore be left to the discretion of individual users. In terms of what's important, I propose we should pin down positions of coal fields (analogous to South Wales, the Black Country, the Pennines), and other industrial resources (e.g. metal mining in Cornwall). These resources heavily influence the industrial heritage of a region and thus human settlement, especially during and after the Industrial Revolution. On the upside, some large settlements are already mapped, and so we have a basis for where important resources may already be (assuming they won't be moved). Yuanls (talk) 22:47, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree with this fully. This was the important of why geology was even brought up. The resources will dictate things. That said, I would not rely too much on where settlements are presently mapped to pin things down. Everything left behind, including Winburgh, is up for relocation or removal just as much as staying. I would note that in the east-central regions, those relics from the past could as easily be wiped or relocated as anything else. They're a bit overbuilt and nonsensical in isolation, but we didn't want to wipe everything when there were some interesting things to potentially repurpose. — Alessa _(talk) 23:28, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Position: Ingerland is somewhat more northerly than the real UK (the southermost point of Ingerland is roughly the same latitude where Manchester, and the northernmost point is equivalent to the Faroes). This would impact the climate, and the overall shapes and features in the landscape, especially if we consider glaciations and postglacial landscapes (assuming the extent and timing of glaciations are roughly the same as they are in real life). This brings me on to one major issue I have about Ingerland: the coastline. The texture of coastline is very homogenous at the moment and does not reflect the diversity in geology and geomorphology that would be present in an area the size of Ingerland. Yuanls (talk) 22:47, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

There is a bit of suspending disbelief that we will have to do regarding the climate, but that's only because this location is the best we can do. However, you are correct that the coastline will necessarily need work. That will be up to the regions at the guidance of the collaborative to make sense of it. The lowland marshes in the southeast should be kept to provide someone the ability to work with a terrain not unlike the Fens and other North Sea-inspired regions. — Alessa _(talk) 23:28, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

History & human geography

Before we discuss modern issues, we need a solid historical and cultural coherency for the nation. Some things are clear, while some need to be discussed.

Certain things that are already established: Ingerland was a major colonial power Ingerland was a very wealthy nation which prospered from colonization and trade Its location is incredibly vital and it gives certain traits: The sea to the east suits Ingerland well as a defense mechanism against other invaders, and easy shipping connections to various nations in the Hetzer region and beyond - this would in turn mean that the east coast and surrounding areas are the main historical core of the country and that most of the country has grown from there. The vast open ocean to the west, blended in with the colonization era provides a hub for shipping, meaning historically the west coast (particularly southwest) would probably develop rapidly at that point of time, and remain a major trading and shipping hub in modern times as well. (This remains true whether the Western Continents are considered canon or not) The regions -98 and -99 have a very strong Celtic cultural image.

What to discuss: Origin of the nation, historical growth, influences by other nations Historical development - which areas grew at what period of time, different influences on a region's population and wealth like trading, wars, resources, etc. Population growth - where are the population centres? It is worth noting that since history is not always perfectly defined in our world, these should be subtle references, events and consensuses that are still notable enough for the development of the nation.

Discussion

All my territories have some sort of history with Ingerland, but all that's particularly important toponymically is the existence of a King Earnest at some point in the 1560s or 1570s. Otherwise, I've assumed that Ingerland would have established a sizable trade/colonial empire (perhaps including trade companies), beginning to branch into the Asperic and Lyc by the early 1500s. I don't have anything else to add at the moment, but maybe I'll come up with a history proposal at some point... --Lithium-Ion (talk) 19:53, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what comes into the category of 'modern issues' (modern as in contemporary 2023, or modern as in the 'modern era' of history). I should add that if users are basing their mapping on the state of the UK as it exists, with only a limited understanding of the trends behind urban development, we are implying that the modern history of Ingerland is roughly analogous to the UK in real life, down to very specific events which we'd either have to replicate, or find alternative explanations for. For example, WWII and the Blitz had signficant ramifications for British society, urban planning and the economy for decades to come. Other events are implicitly established in the 'OGF canon', i.e. the industrial revolution, the development of canals, railways, the proliferation of international trade - and can be pinned down by geology (discussed in the previous section) and geography (which already exists). I'm quite aware my approach might be a bit too detailed for this early stage, so please put this thread on hold if this is so. Yuanls (talk) 23:23, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

You bring up absolutely valid points, and ones that will need to be worked out. Fortunately, there are generally some pretty good ways of retconning things to make them fit. I would state that as far as more modern lore is concerned, I see no reason that something akin to the Blitz happened during the Great War (1940s to early 1950s). Since there has been movement toward viewing that as a series of concurrent, loosely intertwined flashpoints, there is no reason Ingerland could not have encountered such an experience. The details of the war don't need to be ironed out yet, and I wouldn't necessarily assume Kalm as the enemy or any potential ideological alignment. Simply encountering the war in the way allows for a reasonable explanation until further details can be pinned down. — Alessa _(talk) 13:50, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Ingerland should be significantly influenced by either or both Kalm or Nordurland as it borders them directly or at least by the small bodies of water that separates it from Kalm to the south. Territories across the sea in the east (UL 10-98 and UL 10-99) could have been a kingdom/kingdoms that pledge alliance to Ingerland and would eventually be part of the nation. Sheeps, Fur, blubber, and marine resources could be traded in the region in early times, and played part in traditional clothing and food culture. The eastern part of the country could have developed earlier when trading was still concentrated with the countries in West Uletha, and later with the age of discovery and colonization made the western parts of the country more populous and industrial than the ones in the east. Senju (talk) 06:00, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to strongly disagree with your first point as an admin helping to oversee the launching of this project. Ingerland is, by necessity, a powerful cultural influencer in its own right. If anything, it would have exuded influence more than being influenced in its core territories. Now, does that mean there are no Kalmish influences in the south? Of course not. Borderlands are typically messy for a ton of reasons. That will be up to whomever takes those border regions to implement. Alternatively, and not necessarily the best option, would be to assume that Ingerland *lost* that strip of land from the narrow strait to its present Kalmish border at some point, which would require Kalm to adapt far more. These are the types of discussions that are pertinent to whomever decides to map those regions. — Alessa _(talk) 13:50, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Infrastructure

With the geography in place, and the history/movement of people determined, the next step is to connect the all the settlements. This includes national railways, highways (and trunks), national roads (mainly primary), important ports, airports. Lower levels of infrastructure such as public transportation should be decided in each region by its own owner, with the exception of the collaborative regions, where the community should be working together.

Please have in mind the transportation network of Nordurland and Kalm, the two mapped neighboring states!

Discussion

Not really a proposal but something to keep in mind - we may also want to think about things that the UK lacks which other countries may have, e.g. a developed high speed rail network. I think this would be very interesting to explore. —Unsigned comment by Yuanls (talk).

Capital city

The capital city of Ingerland is located in the eastern part of the country, in the region #14^∈⊾, being the administrative, cultural and economic center of the nation. It's designated as a collaborative territory meaning everyone interested is welcome to contribute. However, to prevent the city from being mapped chaotically and to allow it to grow naturally, the city should be planned thoroughly in this section before anything is mapped.

NOTE: The capital should not be based directly off London. The city should have some distinct and unique characteristics. Nevertheless, London is welcome as an inspiration.

What to discuss: The exact location of the capital city within its own region. The geography of the region - (inherited from the national geographic plan) Historical growth of the city Population/size Infrastructure And various other aspects, bits and pieces...

Other topics

Something else on your mind? Write it here!