View source for Forum:Territory application/AR908, AR911, AR912, AR915, AR916, AR921 – Greater Bai Empire and Kanglapo


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:''Please fill in the information below to make a territory request.''

{{Territory application id and name}}

This is an application for the claiming of AR908, AR911, AR912, AR915, AR916, AR921 – Greater Bai Empire, Kanglapo and the Principality of Kinglavia. Following the [[Forum:Territory application/AR915 – Bai Empire and Kanglapo|previous failed application]], I decided to flesh out the entire proposal in full, of the greatest extent of the Bai Empire.
[[File:Greater Bai expansion sketch.png|780px|centre|thumb|Map of Greater Bai and Kanglapo (eastern half of AR915). Kinglavia, the size of Andorra, will be located around [https://wiki.opengeofiction.net/util/map_scale.html?map=C/9.376670766453167/20.13583/149.99480&map2=OSM/x/42.56978/1.52811&pxpt=0.2767&scale=800000 here].]]
{{territory application physical geography}}
[[File:Greater Bai proposal sketch.png|thumb|780px|centre| Red boxes: Major urban areas (sizes are not indicative of actual population)<br> Blue lines: Rivers <br> Brown lines: Mountain range <br> Purple lines: Motorways/Major roads/rail corridors<br> Orange/green lines: Tentative borders with Huaxia]]

The northern coasts of the Bai Empire will be subtropical and humid (something like the coastal areas of Southern China), while inner Bai Empire (AR912, AR915, AR916 and AR921) will be more tropical. AR921 might actually have dry grasslands and have a more arid climate, while AR912 might also have fertile plains for farming. AR915 and AR916 will have bamboo forests and large plains for rice farming. Large parts of the existing rainforest cover will be kept, with the exception of the portion separating AR912 from AR911. The forest covers might be shrunk as Bai develops, but the general shapes will retain.

'''Borders''':

I have discussed with [[User:Coshatiuav|Coshatiuav]] and the users of Huaxia (through [[user:Kengoman|Kengoman]]) on our borders. 
* With [[Huaxia]], I am willing to give up a part of AR916 and establish a long natural river border between the two nations. Due to similar cultures between our countries, it will be reasonable that only a long river might divide us, that still allow a certain degree of cultural exchange. Friendship road and rail bridges, like those between Laos and Thailand, will be built when Huaxia expands closer to the Bai Empire.
* With [[Grinzez]], he had proposed a mountainous range between the two nations. A northern part of the border will remain flat and allow cross-border road travel between Bai and Grinzez (also he had mentioned the possibility of joint economic zones between the two nations for trade). In recent times, perhaps there might be rail tunnels (even High Speed Rail) crossing through the mountains. Especially one connecting from a major city in AR921 to Hitherceko.
* The eastern part of AR915 will be split off to form an independent country of a separate distinct culture (Kanglapo). A small mountain range will separate the two nations along the west side of this country. Wedged between the two nations, there will be a landlocked nation Kinglavia, an isolated nation similar to Bhutan but culturally similar to Kanglapo. Another inspiration could be Andorra, another microstate between Spain and France. Tongbian, an existing Bai province, will be annexed into Kanglapo. A river border will separate the two nations at the northern part of Kanglapo. The annexation will allow Port Dunghoi's status to be elevated as an important border city with Kanglapo. 
* On the borders with AR922 and AR923, depending on the admin, a mountainous range might be extended from Grinzez, or remained flat. If flat, AR921 might be reworked as a region where Malayalam, Tamil and Chinese languages converge, with the possibility of AR921 being a Burmese-speaking region instead. (Similar inspirations can be Xinjiang, Heilongjiang or Guangxi).

{{territory application human geography}}
As also seen in the attached image, human settlements will generally be along the rivers and coasts. AR912 and AR921 might be more sparsely populated compared to the rest of the Empire. The more urbanised cities will be located in AR911, with a Shanghai-esque city located at [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=11/24.4780/144.4801&layers=B Louy]. 

For Kanglapo, its capital Nandacheongfu will be located at the south at existing [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=12/17.1513/149.9275&layers=B Donalou]. Nandacheongfu will be another major city in the region, to be inspired by Seoul and Tokyo. The rest of Kanglapo will have a more socialist-planning style to reflect the existing communist regime of the country. As AR915 and AR916 was once under a Bai communist government, the cities will share similar layouts with Kanglapo. 

For the rest of Bai, the towns will be mapped in a similar style to South Korea, Japan or Taiwan. The settlements of Bai will be connected with an extensive rail network, with HSR lines serving the major cities along the coast and connecting all the way to Grinzez. Joint rail links will also be made with Kanglapo and Huaxia.
[[File:Bai P2 provinces map.png|thumb|780px|centre|This is a sketch of the provincial divisions of Greater Bai. This might be subject to changes, given it was an old sketch by [[User:The Cute Chick|The Cute Chick]].]]
{{territory application history and culture}}

Much of the Bai Empire will be Chinese-speaking, with closer leaning to Southern Chinese cultures and dialects. Teochew and Hokkien will be spoken along the northern coasts, while AR915 and AR916 closer to Huaxia might be culturally closer to Sichuan.

As said about AR921, it might be a buffer language zone between the Southern Indian speaking nations and Bai. Burmese might be proposed, and I find it does make sense given the neighbouring culture of Grinzez and Nakah.

Kanglapo (the eastern half of AR915) speaks a unique conlang inspired by various Asian languages (Thai, Korean, Japanese), with a slight Slavic twist due to its past occupation by Suria. The language will use the [[Wikipedia:Tai Le script|Tai Le script]]. Examples: ᥐᥣᥒᥘᥣᥙᥨ Kanglapo; ᥢᥢᦡᥓᥥᥨᥒᥜᥪ Nandacheongfu; ᥛᥤᥒ ᥔ ᥞᥤᥒ Ming Sa Hing

{{territory application past mapping}}

'''Mapper of Kuehong''' 

* [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=14/28.4079/158.3281&layers=B Bakdep]
* [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=12/26.5971/160.2418&layers=B Namthinhvuong]
* [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/26.4636/158.7994&layers=B Do Cua]
* [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=13/30.2188/160.2375&layers=B Vang Ngat]

'''Coordinator of the Bai Empire''' 

* [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=11/22.0089/150.0705&layers=B Xiongjing]
** [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/22.0324/149.9771&layers=B Pax Nova Sports area]
** [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/22.0097/150.0712&layers=B Government Quarter (Palace design yet to be determined)]
** [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/22.0370/150.0762&layers=B Zhengyi Island]
** [https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/22.3955/150.0861&layers=B Bai Emperor tombs]

'''Gobrassanya'''
*[https://opengeofiction.net/#map=16/20.7512/86.6822&layers=B Bai Quarter]
*Helped fixed some bus routes and metro relations in Gobras City
*[https://opengeofiction.net/#map=16/20.7612/86.6610&layers=B Commercial development at Plantationside]
*[https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/20.8414/86.6853&layers=B Danhduong locomotive assembly plant]

'''Other early sketches of Kanglapo (will be adapted for AR915 region)'''
*[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/625396620497780756/691073613033373696/20200316_203638.jpg Draft tourist map indicating major cities of Kanglapo]
*[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/796585823930810379/906169686683705395/IMG_20211105_211315.jpg A version of Kanglapo (as part of my fictional island Pointochinikia) with provincial divisions]
*[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/796585823930810379/906169705688084510/IMG_20211105_211336.jpg Another version of Kanglapo]
*[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/768854582989422662/821252444041248798/IMG_20210316_131855.jpg A sketch of a major transport hub of Nandacheongfu, capital of Kanglapo (will be reworked as the government administrative area)]
*[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/796585823930810379/990968192723742780/IMG_20220627_211316.jpg Another area of Nandacheongfu (east of the central area)]
*[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/796585823930810379/990922167644467230/20200322_080446.jpg Another area of Nandacheongfu (east of above image)]
*[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/796585823930810379/990968238928199720/IMG_20220627_211328.jpg Another area of Nandacheongfu (east of above image)]

{{territory application username and date}}

[[User:Zhenkang|Zhenkang]] ([[User talk:Zhenkang|talk]]) 05:08, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

== Discussion ==
{{territory application discussion}}
 
* "eastern part of AR915 will be split off to form an independent country … between the two nations, there will be a landlocked nation ..." - please show the existing Bai boundary, the proposed extended boundary and these two other proposed territories on a sketch map. Thanks /[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 09:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
* Added map as per requested. [[User:Zhenkang|Zhenkang]] ([[User talk:Zhenkang|talk]]) 09:57, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
** What are your thoughts on territory / project administration - should it be one enlarged collab, less formally managed, as it currently is? Or split into admin_level=4 sub-territories, with constraints, as done for FSA? 
**Also, is [[Collab:Bai_Empire#Phase I]] up to date with current contributors? Thanks/[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 16:02, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
:::As the Bai Empire at the moment still doesn't have that many contributors, it will remain as one enlarged collab, less formally managed. Kanglapo and Kinglavia, however, will be personal territories of mine and isn't exactly part of the Bai Empire collab. 
:::I still plan to engage with a couple of Huaxia mappers to draw more users into the project, and also people from OSM Taiwan. The Huaxia mappers, from what I heard, decided to set up their own separate project because they are unfamiliar with this Bai project mapping style (more closer to Taiwan/Japan than on the mainland which is more socialist planned). Still, they might take an interest in the border towns between Huaxia and Bai.--[[User:Zhenkang|Zhenkang]] ([[User talk:Zhenkang|talk]]) 01:36, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

:::By the way, Huaxia will be submitting their application soon. The Bai collab page is up to date (without accounting for expansion yet) and the talks on border changes are on going with Huaxia and Grinzez. As well, along with Grinzez border change, I am talking with coshatiav about slight border change with Nakah as well, but that's not very relevant in this discussion. --[[User:Kengoman|Kengoman]] ([[User talk:Kengoman|talk]]) 06:02, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:::From the descripitions provided, would AR921 be better off as a separate SEA-themed country? It has great potential given the right user(s). It's also likely I'll request two Bai coastal provinces bordering Grinzez so as to develop a more cohesive history there. [[User:Coshatiuav|Coshatiuav]] ([[User talk:Coshatiuav|talk]]) 06:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:::As we discussed on Discord, AR921 will end up like a sort of Yunnan Province where people are actually SEA but are integrated into China itself. I think this has potential to be interesting where all mapping is in Chinese but the culture is SEA. As for province assignment I think this will be a long discussion later because of the sheer amount of naming that needs to be done. I also propose consolidating some provinces so there isn't too much administrative work to do. --[[User:Kengoman|Kengoman]] ([[User talk:Kengoman|talk]]) 06:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
*I remembered another thing, I wonder if there can be a dedicated location for the template interchange and buildings area off the coast of Bai https://opengeofiction.net/#map=13/23.5638/147.7764&layers=B, from my understanding, many users around the community actually utilize the template area, and seeing as it shouldn't be canon, could it perhaps be moved to a dedicated BG territory? Perhaps as a community collab? There are actually quite a few template areas and rendering tests around the world and it would be nice to have a dedicated area to put them so they don't need to take up real mapping areas. The other two floating cities around that area will of course be moved to a proper location once expansion goes through. --[[User:Kengoman|Kengoman]] ([[User talk:Kengoman|talk]]) 08:02, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
::I'll have a think about that. /[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 22:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

{{territory application approved|Approved - former AR908, AR911, AR912, AR916 and AR921 have been merged into {{relation|26775|AR909}}, with related territory modifications to AR915 and AR919. AR915 has also been granted as an owned territory, but be careful that this isn't too much. Thanks/[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 22:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)|}}

* Note that "...between the two nations, there will be a landlocked nation Kinglavia..." this part of the application has not been approved, as really not sufficient information to understand what was being asked for, how it fits into the organisational structure and a complex enough application already. If this is to be progressed then make a new detailed application using territory ID AR916. Thanks/[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 08:10, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
** I will still set aside a gap between the Bai and Kanglapolish borders for this project in the future. Key idea is for this area to be a remnant of Kanglapo in older times before foreign occupation and communism.--[[User:Zhenkang|Zhenkang]] ([[User talk:Zhenkang|talk]]) 11:42, 29 June 2022 (UTC)