Forum:Territory application/UL08e - Atrèbas

Forums → Territory application → Territory application/UL08e - Atrèbas

Please fill in the information below to make a territory request.

	Territory ID and proposed name
	The Territory ID (from OpenGeofiction:Territories, e.g. AR123a) and proposed name of the country

UL08e - Atrèbas

I would be happy with the northern half of UL08e (see sketch below)

	Physical geography
	An overview of climate, topography and landscape of the country. It is advised to also create a sketch, you can add a link to this (hosted on imgur or similar)

A large West-European style physical country, with a comparable physical geography based on Germany and France.

- Climate is temperate: temperate marine in the west, temperate continental in the east.

Topography:

- large coastal lowlands and river valleys dominate in the West starting at the Morcanol Bay make up for excellent agriculture land

- aligning with the neighboring countries, a large Alpine mountain chain dominates the eastern parts

- rolling hills at the footslopes of those Alpine mountains stretch to the border region with Brennland and others

- an interior plain in the middle of the country is located at some altitude (400-500 m) and features a continental temperate climate which makes it different from the coastal lowlands (maybe more heathland and less forests - to be developed)

sketch: https://imgur.com/yXdiTiM

	Human geography
	A brief description of the territory demographics, economic development, land occupation, infrastructure and mapping style

Human geography wise, Atrèbas is also a Western-Europe style country.

- It has a HDI of 0.89/0.9. Overall the west and central plain are more developed then the other parts.

- the countries economy and infrastructure is centralized around two large cities: the large capital near the sea (along a river probably), and a central metropolitan city in the central plains

• the western lowlands are rich agricultural lands, dominated by small cities and villages. There is a dense infrastructure network and a high HDI.
• the central plain is less suited for agriculture, and features a combination of agriculture, heathland, forests, marshes, ... It has one big central city and many small villages.
• the hilly lands and mountains are largely covered by natural vegetation. Large lakes occupy some over deepened glacial valleys. Small mountain villages survive from tourism, specialized agriculture (cheese) or mining activities.

Mapping style:

• Atrèbas will partially be a tribute to social geography, and I will map some social geography basic features:
  • different village styles in different regions (nuclear, round, elongated, spread out, ...) give each region its own typical landscape
  • I will also map according to some of the old fashioned settlement pattern theories, with different ranks of cities-villages-hamlets
• I do not intent to micro-map, which is anyway impossible to do for such a territory. Instead I would like to implement a ~Ingerland kind of style, although I would like to put more detail in historic city centers

	History & culture
	A brief description of the intended culture and language

Atrèbas will combine IRL Germanic and Latin cultures in one country (similar to Switzerland or Belgium):

- Dutch-like-con-language and culture in the West (aligning with the location of Lentië and Welstand-Westrijk)

- French or French-like-con-language in the East, aligning with the proposed culture for the country and Franqueterre

A detailed history has to be set up later, but look at Atrèbas as a OGF version of what-could-have-been Burgundy: a mighty Duchy that is spread out over several medieval states and that has a complicated relationship with its feodal ruler. At the end of the feudal period (1790s) it can somehow break free from the feudal overlords in Franqueterre (and Lentië?) and form a new country. Forming a new country in this period means setting up a (for that time) modern legislative framework, which enables innovation and makes Atrèbas one of the early industrializing countries. In the late 1800s it undertakes some semi successful colonizing attempts, but all colonies become independent before 1960.

	Past mapping
	To support your request provide links to areas of OGF mapping which showcase your mapping skill. Mapping relevant to the requested theme & geography is especially useful
	The {{coord}} template can optionally be used to link to the OGF map - it results in a nice formatted link. Or you can paste in a URL.

- historic city center of Witzandmond (loosely Malaga based, with some Cape Town influences maybe) : https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/32.5714/162.0324&layers=B

- Rural landscapes: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=12/32.8623/162.4666&layers=B

- more rural areas: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=12/30.1676/161.0096&layers=B

- no-detail-mapping of rural areas: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=12/32.0822/161.6002&layers=B

- capital city: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=13/31.4075/161.0105&layers=B

I would agree on abandoning my current territory

	Username & date
	Sign and date the application by typing four tildes like this: ~~~~

Fayaan (talk) 11:00, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

	Discussion
	Discussion for clarification & decision

• Hey, thanks for the great request. However, your current mapping does not yet show much European-style urban mapping and the sketch is not detailed enough/off-scale regarding the size of the territory. You can maybe try to join the Lentia collaborative project to practice your European-style mapping first? --Stjur (talk) 21:14, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
• Hi Stjur, as my current territory was created at the breaking up of Commonia (and I originally was not made aware of the Asian style, but actually planned a Cape/South African style) off course most mapping of urban regions is not European style. I do not feel comfortable in a collaborative project. But let me add some examples of European style city centers I anyway developed:
  • the city center of Fayaan City is largely inspired by European style cities (although suburbs or the southern parts are indeed more new world style) with also a very big (see it as an oversized champs Elysées) avenue which is inspired by the late 19th century city renewal projects in many EU project. The Bai quarter is actually inspired by the 'city-within-a-city' principle of the Beguinages of Netherlands, Belgium and France, although much larger.
  • the historical center of Witzandmond is largely inspired by some Spanish cities, such as Malaga or St Cruz de La Palma. You can see the old-harbor-turned-into-a-park (~Malaga) and in front of it a new harbor, a walled city center (actually a designed it as having two walls, as the city grew), an old fortress on a hill, a large area with square streets that was build on reclaimed land somewhere in the 19th C and with a big park, ....
  • some smaller cities are also inspired on Europe: Noordkaap is largely based on some IRL Atlantic Island cities; Zonnevliet was an experiment based on IRL Dutch fortress cities like Naarden, Zierikzee, or Sluis
  • this tidal flatland area is based on the Danish/German/Dutch Wadden Sea area. That was actually a mapping exercise I had much fun with.
  • and finally I have trying to develop an own 'national' style for suburbs (like IRL most countries have their own style of urban planning) like here, where you will certainly recognize some styles of German planned cities or the Dutch planned cities in the Flevoland
• If these examples are good enough as a portfolio I would be happy to make a more detailed sketch, although I could use some advice on which software to use and maybe an example of which detail you require. If they are not good enough, I would be understanding and work on an additional portfolio (I was anyhow planning to give this area a mixed colonial French style) Fayaan (talk) 09:27, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Hey, for requesting a territory in West Uletha, urban mapping should show that you understand historical development of cities - how/where has the city development started, in which directions has it spread and why, what is the clear hierarchy in your street grids etc. Landscape mapping, especially when you request a big territory, should show that you understand how to lay out and work with topography. Detailing is less important to me, it's more important to have a strong base structure for your work. If you don't like working in collab territories, you can also use blue territories to show mapping examples --Stjur (talk) 15:41, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

- Hi Stjur, thanks for your comments. Let me add some answers to your questions:

• Most of my cities, event if they are in colonial style, are mapped in a 'chronological order', starting from a medieval or early colonial city center, creating suburbs and industries around it along the mayor roads. Each city should have a clear road pattern with primary/secondary/tertiary roads following historical patterns (though primary roads off course don't penetrate historical city centers but stop at ring roads). Let me add again Witzandmond as an example (which a have discussed already above): . The city is locatad at the mount of an important river ( logical place to start a city). It has a coastal stretch, followed by a mountain/hill ridge (now forest) and then the major river valley which developed as a city (bad choice, I know, such a topography results certainly in air quality problems :-)). You can see that a medieval walled city around a mountain-top fortress is the city center. You can recognize a second city wall from a later (18th C) city extension that has been turned into an inner city ringroad later on. Some parts of the city, like here, have been redesigned in typical early 20th century city planning style. The original harbour was located in a tidal marsh area east of the city; this harbour silted up and later on a typical 19th century land reclamation occurred with the large park. Here you can find the typical large buildings, museums, banks, ... At the same time a seaside harbour was build, and this harbour was later on remediated to some new city quarters and a typical park-which-was-before-a-harbour (which you can find in many countries, from Spain to Denmark, from Cuba to Argentina). The 20th century saw a new modern harbour being constructed in front of it (again, IRL examples all over the world). A 19th century railroad connects to the southwest and the rest of the country. A late 20th century large motorway had to be squeezed in between the city and the harbour, meaning that some parts are merely a primary road. I can write more about the suburbs who gradually took over the entire river valley and also incorporated or destroyed the original agricultural villages. Off course 20th century saw also the rise of the important infrastructural works like more highways to channel traffic to the harbour and the city center offices. A subway system is mainly located under existing roads, limiting costs of construction. The late 20th century airport is located at some distance, due to the topography of the region. You should see that major destinations are connected by primary (or secondary) roads all over my territory, with stretches of highways running parallel to it where traffic is dense (as costs of motorways are not justified in regions where there is less traffic, I have opted for the realistic option that not all highways are connected from city-to-city). Primary roads may or may not have a ringroads around villages or town centers, depending on financial means available.
• I have in detail planned the topography of Fayaan before starting to map anything else. You might still see many traces of it, as this rough mapping is still in place in several areas. Basically the country has a backbone mountain ridge (North-South) which is the source area of rivers. I have mapped this as forest, as subtropical mountains rarely have above-the-tree-line areas. Located in the northern hemisphere at this latitude, you would expected a monsoon-like climate, with more rainfall in the west, hence the greener west with more agriculture, and a Savannah region east of the mountains. I have taken into account a predominant Southwest > Northeast ocean current, which should be visible in the coastal topography and for instance beach-hooks. Through a personal message I can provide you some more info on my professional past and why topography should be one of my strong points if you want, but I will not post it here for privacy reasons. [--Fayaan]

• Hey, the theory is all there and that's an amazing thing, but regarding the mapping, I don't fully see it yet - it doesn't give me enough for the size of the territory you're requesting. I'll ask you to map a town, just as you'd map it in Atrebas, either in your own territory or in a blue territory (it can later be moved to your new territory or anywhere else). Based on the mapping of this town, I will decide on the size of the territory I'll grant you. --Stjur (talk) 22:31, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
• Hello Stjur, thanks for your reply. I hope I don't take too much of your time. I have mapped the city of Klaarmeer in a European style. It shows the level of detail I would consider for Atrèbas: more detail in the historic city center, while the rest of the town focusses on tertiary or larger roads. I have also started to map the larger lake region in the same style and level of detail. Any feedback is welcome, also through PM.
• Hello Stjur, meanwhile I have mapped the larger area in Ulethan style: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=10/30.6599/161.5199&layers=B and I am also working on a history-based mapping of a larger city: [1] and [2].
• Hey, sorry for the delay. While I don't think Klaarmeer is on the mapping level needed to request a territory in West Uletha, I do see potential in Huysburg. Therefore I'll leave the request open. As a comment - there is a slight lack of structure in your street grids, for example here and here. By structure I dont mean that I want to see rectangular street grids, but rather a historically organically grown hierarchy between the streets (clearly distinguishable main roads, secondary roads, what do the roads connect? what is the reason why a specific road is bent/meandering? etc.). What I think can also improved is the understanding of how to work topography into your landscape mapping, how to come up with a topography concept and how to make it visible through your mapping. --Stjur (talk) 22:07, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
• After our discussions over email, I have been working on a more European style map of the Fayaan region. Not all has bene deleted and re-done (especially not: wider Krabbenbaai region and the port) but probably you can see how the territory has changed and how I emphasized the European style and put some effort in the road hierarchy. So, I would like to reopen this application, with some changes: (1) I have made a better sketch of the requested territory https://imgur.com/a/rRmdCmh (2) after having put more effort into Fayaan, I would like to request that I can keep Fayaan (open for discussion). [--Fayaan]
• Hey Fayaan, I see and appreciate your improvement, but I can't grant you the territory of UL08e. As mentioned, you can message the current manager of the Dutch collaborative project Lentia and map there instead. Thanks --Stjur (talk) 13:19, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

	Territory application closed
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