Forum - Stanton and Esperanza

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Overview > Collaboration > AR120 - Federal States > Stanton and Esperanza

With Cosperica firing up soon (hopefully), I think it would be a good idea canonically to make Esperanza the largest city in the Federal States. This would help further separate the FSA from the U.S. while also giving the Cosperica coordinators and mappers some more flexibility to be creative and unique. Stanton, of course, would still be the dominant center of the east coast, but having Esperanza be officially the largest city I think is a good idea.

I don't think this change will necessarily require any changing to the mapping of Stanton itself, but there are several options that could happen (based on the agreement of the New Carnaby team and other mappers, of course):
  • Option 1: Node Change Only. In this case, literally the only thing about Stanton that would change is the population tag on the node and associated wiki documentation.
  • Option 2: Separate Boroughs. This option would split Stanton into separate cities based on the existing boroughs, which while obviously based on New York City, would explore something of an alternate universe where Brooklyn stayed independent from New York City. The metro area would still be the largest in the FSA, but none of the cities proper would be larger than Esperanza.
  • Option 3: Twin Cities. Without major changes to the map, Stanton would simply become less dense and would form a twin city arrangement with Warwick.
  • Option 4: Relocation. This would be a similar but separate option from Option 3 where Stanton and Warwick are similar sizes, but Stanton itself would be relocated or swapped with Wynntethla/Partstone to put more space between Stanton and Warwick.
  • Option 5: Super-Sized Esperanza. This option wouldn't change Stanton at all, but would just make Esperanza obscenely large and populous. I personally don't like this option, but it's still an option nevertheless.

Of course, the final decision would be up to the New Carnaby team, but I wanted to start this thread to see what other ideas are out there and what other mappers think about the idea.
Posted by TheMayor on 22 January 2021 at 23:14.

That would depend on the question about the status of the two cities. Is it just the point that they are the largest cities? I can't remember all FSA rules. Is there a rule prohibiting me to map a bigger city? Otherwise I am not bothered which city is bigger.

Or do we have an interest that all FSA-mappers can somehow indentify themselves with that showcase city? Then it would bother me. Currently Stanton is a "collaborative"-thing, but it does not look collaborative. I have stated my objections at the time it was started and many of them came true, so I do not identify with it, definitely not as a showcase. I also miss the involvement of a significant number of mappers. I do not know why it did not attract more mapper or whether that was the plan at all. I lost interest pretty quickly when the city layout and the subways were added in a matter of days. It had the taste of "your input is not necessary". Furthermore the project page gave the impression of "Be welcome to do the hard detailing for us, but don't add/change/question anything significant". So basically the fun of creating somthing together was finished. And everytime I look at it, it seems to look the same as a month after it was created. I then never felt any desire to help on the project anymore.

So, what is the plan for Esperanza? A showcase, intended for all FSA-mappers to feel that they should join? Will the clone trap be avoided? If Esperanza is a new project which has a welcoming atmosphere and is open for discussions and ideas, I could be interested to take part.

Again, that all depends on the reasoning behind Stanton and Esperanza in the first place. If they are just the biggest cities and no showcases then I could not care less. If they are meant to be showcases, they must be subject to scrutiny. They must further be under direct FSA-admin control, who shall be able to replace a Stanton or Eperanza admin when it is necessary for the sake of the status as a showcase.

If it is just a big city on the East Coast, there is no need for scrutiny and I will not further comment on what I like about the city or not.

Posted by Toadwart on 24 January 2021 at 21:08.

When the FSA launched, Stanton, Minneuka, and Esperanza were each chosen as the largest cities in the original three collaborative states; I don’t know if there was ever consensus on Stanton being the largest of the three officially. I don’t know if it’s an official “rule”, but the general guidance is that any individual city that is larger than 3mil must be located in a collaborative state, and with Mennowa recently converted to a private state either Stanton or Esperanza will de facto be the largest city in the FSA. (Theoretically a city like Andreapolis, Massodeya City, or Port Massehanee could also be considered, but existing plans for those cities do not appear to be targeting any of those for mega-cities.)

Posted by TheMayor on 24 January 2021 at 21:44.

Toadwart, I think as our largest cities they should be showcases. They're a big part of the FSA's collective culture. Esperanza should totally be a project open to everyone, as you've described.

Ignoring the fact that it's somewhat of a clone, there are honestly a lot of things I currently like about Stanton. For example, Bronzeville give me chills- it's one of those spots that actually has some industry, and the old town layout is gorgeous- but on the other hand, the grid comes to a complete halt at the county border without any sort of transition besides the Eppenham Forest. And the Sawmille River/Creek is just a straight line that conforms to the grid .

Ideally, I think the coordinators should: -make some changes to the local geography to make Stanton more into its own. -give Stanton a proper historic center, -alter the grid to better blend out into the suburbs, -maybe even apply some name changes, and finally, -open up wards for mappers to detail, a la Gobras City.

But I DON'T think we should switch around Stanton and Partstone, that'd be too a shock for the entire region.

Posted by Fluffr Nuttr on 24 January 2021 at 22:46.

Things are always changing in OGF. New waves of users and ideas are always coming and going.

When I started Stanton as a NYC highly inspired city, there was so much NYC clones around OGF. Specially one in Woolonia, if I remember well. If we take a look, still today we will find a lot of NYC inspired maps in OGF

About a rule about do not create a bigger city, well, it is a good sensus to each FSA mapper. If it is an open question, prepare to behold a war "in my state is located the bigger metropolis in this FSA region", in more than one state in each region. We can imagine how it would finish.

Honestly, I look to Stanton and see it in a reallistic way to be a FSA metropolis largely inspired in NYC. But, as I do not edit in this place anymore, I dont have an opinion about it anymore. Maybe I start downloading some of my edits as a backup...

PS: Stanton always was open to all OGF-users. If some ones was more interested in the beginning than other ones, the first ones was fulfiling the place... But obvioulsy would be better if users deal with Stanton as they deal with Gobras City.

Posted by BMSOUZA (administrator) on 25 January 2021 at 13:21.

Just to finish my point as "Stanton always was open to every one", take a look the number of OGF users showing any interest about a state flag.

I sent a proposal. There was no others. FSA mappers was not showing interest to Stanton and New Carnaby. The mood was to have an own state, not to spend time in a collaborative one.

As the Stanton mapping, feel free to keep or delete the state flag and license plate too if you want. No bad feeling by my side.

Posted by BMSOUZA (administrator) on 25 January 2021 at 13:31.