Talk:Gobrassanya

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See OGF:Gobrassanya for the collaborative project to edit Gobrassanya.

Culture/History of Gobrassanya

OK, so here's my thinking about Gobrassanya. Let me know if it makes sense: I think the most realistic explanation for the huge mix of different European names in Gobrassanya is that it must have been colonized by various European-like groups (English, Spanish, French, German, Irish, etc). I think all these groups must have migrated to Gobrassanya, because it's hard to imagine that they all originated there. Then there are a lot of non-European names, which I imagine came from the original inhabitants. In the wiki I've labeled these people "Gobrasi" and to explain the fact that many of their names sound totally different from one another, I wrote in the wiki that the Gobrasi are made up of a large number of different cultures (Maranese/Gorrawa, Pohalanese, Yanti, Colquit, etc). I imagine these native cultures as vaguely Asian-like, in order to provide some continuity with Khaiwoon, which is also somewhat Asian-inspired (though colonized by English speakers). So in order to smooth the transition from Gobrassanya into Khaiwoon, I wanted to be sure that the southeastern part of Gobrassanya still had a significant Gobrasi flavor, which is why I changed Strassen/Carlsberg to Sutarasa/Kalabag. But in central and western Gobrassanya (where Harley is located) you could imagine a different story, one where the Gobrasi were forced out of the area, or barred from speaking their native languages, or something... and so it's possible that European names could dominate there. So really, whatever story you want to create for that area would probably work there, maybe something that fits with whatever you have in mind next door in Alora...? Isleño (talk) 21:39, 4 August 2014 (CEST)

The somewhat "natural" explanation: during the 19th century the Aloran empire went through a period of decline, which allowed the european (???) powers to seize parts of it to develop trading posts in strategically avantageous locations. Later, when the usual 99-year leases where running out and the colonies where to be returned to Alora, their inhabitants mutinied and declared their independence (thereby uniting out of necessity to strengthen their position). Alternative theory: Gobrassanya is the holy land, and the "europeans" are descendants of medieval crusaders. Thilo (talk) 19:11, 6 August 2014 (CEST)
Intriguing ideas... (Although if Gobrassanya was a "holy land" then I'd expect to see a lot more ancient stuff there. To me it seems pretty modern for the most part.) In any case it appears that both Alora and Gobrassanya are mainly inhabited by the descendants of the "Europeans" so it might be fun to imagine what sort of dynamic would play out, where the colonies as well as the non-colonized state both undergo "European" settlement and then the colonies are slated to be returned. Interesting idea, I like how it creates some tension. (Btw in the wiki, I used the word "white" instead of "European" because it doesn't imply the existence of Europe, but it feels a little weird to be using it... Perhaps we should consider replacement terms for things like "European" "English" "Christian" etc. so that we're not constantly mentioning geography and history which is nonexistent in this world. Maybe using a pattern that's easy to remember and expand upon, for example, "European" --> "Europic"... "English" --> "Englandic"... "Christian" --> "Christic"... or maybe I'm the only one who's irked by these Earth words, haha.) Isleño (talk) 05:27, 7 August 2014 (CEST)
Yeah you're right, most of Gobrassanya looks much too modern (OTOH, Tel Aviv also does). However, people have already mapped churches or declared the main religion of their country to be "catholic". Which of course begs the question about the "catholic" church: Does it have a pope? Is it "roman" catholic? Where is its "Rome"? I imagine Roantra to have its own autocephalous church, headed by its own roantian pope, to at least avoid some of those problems. And Sathria will have at least three of them. Still, the holy land probably has to be somewhere. The same is to some extent valid for the european languages. I don't really care if a language on our planet is called "English" or "Englandic", but the fact that cannot be denied is that e.g. Orinoco has the same language as parts of Gobrassanya, which has to be explained somehow. Or maybe not, I don't really know. At the end of a day, I feel that having a vibrant community where users can do more or less what they want, is much more important to me than to enforce historical consistency. --Thilo (talk) 22:39, 7 August 2014 (CEST)
I agree it wouldn't be good to force things on people, just a suggestion. One of the things I love about maps is deciphering them, searching for patterns to discover an underlying story. (Why are these islands in this shape? Why did these people settle in this area? Why did this city develop this layout?) And that desire to understand, to make sense of a complex structure, extends to larger stuff that transcends national boundaries too (Where did this language originate? How did this religion evolve?) and so not only do I want to seek answers to those questions, but also to help encourage enough consistency so that others too can enjoy discovering the underlying stories of this OGF world.--Isleño (talk) 08:37, 8 August 2014 (CEST)
As Isleño stated earlier "Perhaps we should consider replacement terms for things like "European" "English" "Christian" etc. so that we're not constantly mentioning geography and history which is nonexistent in this world. Maybe using a pattern that's easy to remember and expand upon, for example, "European" --> "Europic"... "English" --> "Englandic"... "Christian" --> "Christic"..." I propose that we come up with terminlogy to replace earth words... I see that in Khaiwoon English is refered to as Ingerish and I would propose that it would be the replacement word for English and couls also be the word used to replace British and other englandic descriptors. German and French could also be renamed as well I propose 'Hunnish' instead of German/Deutsch. Christianity could become the "Christic Movement" and/or "The Way" and followers would be simply be known as "Followers".--Indyroads (talk) 22:52, 19 October 2014 (CEST)

If I look to Ulethra then I see the structur of a changed Europe and Asia, if I see Tarephia then this is Northern America and Anteraphia southern America - as in a changing mirror. Only Archanta is really new. That were my associations from beginning and so it was clear: There are white men in the northwest, asian people in the middle and east, native poeple (like in America or Polynesia) in the south. So I have no problems to think, spanish speaking people were gone to Latina or dutch and lower-german people have founded Zylanda and Van Pelt. Maybe, in some countries they dominate - but p.e. in Khaiwoon I think is a good mixture of different cultures. --Histor (talk) 23:21, 7 August 2014 (CEST)

The 'foreign power settlers' history works well, but you need to devise a reason for them to all come here in the first place and from where. Does GB have a large deposits of natural resources or was it just a good location for a trading centre? And which empires did they come from? (Whilst my homeland of Karolia does have a strong history of maritime trade, the lack of Finnish/Estonian/Hungarian language and place names in GB would suggest that they didn't make much progress on actually conquering any of it).--Sarepava (talk) 23:28, 7 August 2014 (CEST)

Population

So what is the population of Gobrassanya?Wal (talk) 00:00, 14 September 2014 (CEST)

It's hard to say, since Gobrassanya isn't being planned by a single person and no one knows how it will turn out. That said, the high motorway density suggests that the population density would be quite high as well. If we use South Korea as a model then there would be upwards of 50 million people, but whether the cities will grow large enough to accommodate such a number is anyone's guess. --Isleño (talk) 12:12, 16 September 2014 (CEST)

Hello, any update on population for Gobrassanya or Gobras City? Can be helpful to decide service of Gobrassian Airlines. Dono87 (talk) 23:43, 28 October 2015 (CET)

It is a bit hard to estimate. Does anyone has any guess ? Clik 11 December 2015

Population Estimates

I'm at it again. Here are some guesstimates for metropolitan areas and districts, based on a modified rank-size rule, for the cities over 100k. Skews towards larger metro areas, as people haven't focused on small and medium-sized cities to date (plus small land area of Gobrassanya).

Some ideas from me, curious to hear your ideas:

  • Metro Area could be equivalent to American-style MSA based on counties or commuting patterns. So Omissino County would be in Gobras City's MSA, but Gobras City-Ominoso-Margenson could be grouped into one CSA of 12.5 million, and the 3 capital region districts together are 15.1 million.
  • Not a strict rank-size rule application, as I don't see any other cities being larger than 2-3 million
  • Metro area populations based on what I saw as future potential... Ormeo has great bones and setup for a lot of sprawl inland and a dense island core. It just hasn't seen much love from mappers, yet.
  • District populations based on metro areas plus a rural population depending on size (125/mi2)... with higher rural pop for Lonowai District (250/mi2), as I didn't know what to make of the towns there.
  • Assumed to represent all metropolitan areas over 100k, smaller places accounted for in rural population figure
  • Artana could be smaller if someone removes Lenox, Kirimitu may not be very developed today but it has a good location and should grow, there should be a local HSR stop at Kirimitu Meeting, Portridge may have passed Yarakira in population/mapping for now, etc.
District Name Postal Abbrev. District Capital Area (km2) Area (mi2) Population (k) Density (per km2) Density (per mi2)
National Capital District CD Gobras City 1,222 472 8,059 6,595 17,073
Arcois District AR Gautig 3,422 1,322 754 220 571
Arrowic District AW Puerto Geo 3,483 1,345 1,711 491 1,272
Brunswick District BR Kenrich 4,277 1,652 1,933 452 1,170
Gallitania District GA Queensboro 5,743 2,218 1,184 206 534
Grand Lake District GL Quesagnais 5,621 2,171 1,871 333 862
Harley District HR Ominoso 13,564 5,239 3,256 240 622
Jerrais District JR Ormeo 10,876 4,201 3,025 278 720
Lhatghaver District LA Havreg 9,043 3,493 1,671 185 478
Lonowai District LN Ōbaku 4,211 1,627 916 217 563
Marapura District MA Marapura 2,077 802 1,288 620 1,605
Phailoon District PL Phailoon City 11,731 4,531 1,678 143 370
Pohalashee District PH Laguna (City) 7,576 2,926 2,956 390 1,010
Naupau District NP Ontaro 11,609 4,484 2,042 176 591
Sutarasa District ST Kalabag 10,142 3,918 2,313 228 455
Volantia District VL Colquitam 6,721 2,596 967 144 372
Yantia District YA Artana 11,242 4,342 3,790 337 873
Gobrassanya Gobras City 122,560 47,341 39,415 322 833
Rank Size (k) Rank*Size Coefficient Metropolitan Area District(s)
1 10.000 10.0 Gobras City - Omissino Bend - Bayview CD-HR-YA
2 2.500 5.0 Ominoso - Margenson - Milaukashka HR-YA
3 2.083 6.3 Laguna - Newport - Kopalai PH
4 1.875 7.5 Ormeo - Mezza Coast JR
5 1.600 8.0 Quesagnais - Grand Lake GL
6 1.417 8.5 Puerto Geo AW
7 1.286 9.0 Ontaro - Wallace NP
8 1.188 9.5 Marapura MA
9 1.111 10.0 Phailoon City - Stafford PL
10 1.000 10.0 Carratta BR
11 0.892 9.8 Artana YA
12 0.803 9.6 Queensboro GA
13 0.727 9.4 Kenrich BR
14 0.662 9.3 Havreg LA
15 0.605 9.1 Uchina ST
16 0.556 8.9 Kalabag ST
17 0.512 8.7 Katyapura ST
18 0.474 8.5 Gautig AR
19 0.439 8.3 Premsbrook JR-ST
20 0.408 8.2 Kirimitu LA
21 0.370 7.8 Obaku-Uhola LN
22 0.336 7.4 Yarakira JR
23 0.305 7.0 Samunta YA
24 0.276 6.6 Ayala PH
25 0.250 6.3 Colquitam VL
26 0.230 6.0 Fruhlen PH
27 0.212 5.7 Mougnon VL
28 0.195 5.5 Kazuya Beach NP
29 0.180 5.2 Halveman VL
30 0.165 5.0 Fallsington LA
31 0.151 4.7 Sterbing HR
32 0.139 4.4 Wiston - Ohimeno LN
33 0.127 4.2 Valkaria AW
34 0.115 3.9 Brisbane AR
35 0.105 3.7 Perkins GA

--Dono87 (talk) 18:21, 1 August 2020 (CEST)

Nice work, provides a good basis for wiki purposes and background. A few remarks:

  • In general, I think your population estimates are very good, similar to what I'd expect. It would really be a good guideline when mapping out cities, looking up info etc.
  • You've estimated metro area populations based on future potential, but you must be careful that you don't stretch it too far beyond what's currently mapped. Since this is a relatively open (formerly even blue) country, it may as well never get mapped the way you envision it. If the list contains such things, it will start to feel like hypothetical to others, eventually leading to them neglecting the list as a whole. A bit of extra population for some metro areas that look large but are in fact not really mapped yet like e.g. Kalabag, but not for something finished like e.g. Samunta is ok, but it's best to try to stick to a similar factor with other cities. I don't see why Ormeo should have that much more potential than Puerto Geo for example. If someone later on starts to map it out in detail so that it becomes much larger, the list can still be altered. This would've happened to Samunta for example, which was basically nothing a few months back.
  • As you've guessed it, I don't feel like Ormeo should be the largest city after Gobras City and Laguna. While it is true it's suitable for further development, this is also true for the similar sized Puerto Geo (and others), so best to stick to it's current mapped size. If one starts to map the city so it becomes bigger, the list can be altered.
  • To me, it seems Ontaro is the fourth metro area, and should be moved up in the list. Grand Lake on the other hand is a bit too much imo, since it has quite a few constraints so it can't really become that large, more something like 1.2 mil. Also, Gautig feels bigger, or might need a bit of road diet to match that population better.
  • Kiritimu is indeed a good spot for quite some development, but 0.408 is a bit too much. Something similar in size as Kazuya Beach with it's 0.195 (seems a little low btw) is already quite a bit of work and would fit better. Or maybe split between two cities Kiritimu and Fairfax, combined 0.305 for example, with Fairfax being the larger one with something 0.2-ish. I'd say that this is something that should be made clear to others that this is one that's currently not yet mapped, as opposed to all others that are more or less at their stated size.
  • Removing Lenox and merging it into Artana is a very interesting idea, this would make a lot of sense. The more detailed downtown section's buildings could be moved and integrated in Artana, most other features are worthless.
  • Again, very nice work!

Squizie3 (talk) 20:31, 1 August 2020 (CEST)

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback Squizie.
I'm wondering if there's a way to share a dynamic table that everyone can update that also feeds through to the wiki. I made a Google Sheet here. The order of the main cities can be changed without changing the overall national total of around 40m population.
I think you're suggesting a top 4 to 7 that looks like this:
  • 1,875k - Puerto Geo
  • 1,600k - Ontaro - Wallace
  • 1,417k - Ormeo - Mezza Coast
  • 1,286k - Quesagnais - Grand Lake
The order looks totally reasonable, but I would start to be concerned about the size of Ormeo or Grand Lake. They have some very expensive infrastructure like multiple underwater metro tunnels, and for Grand Lake, a 2nd underwater road tunnel on a lake that has no oceangoing shipping traffic. Perhaps the population of the top cities could be flexed up a little bit, to be more in line with their predicted size according to the rank-size rule, keeping total population under say 45 million.
I changed the order of some other cities on the Google Sheet (Samunta, Kalabag, Gautig, Kirimitu). Some of the smaller cities can be addressed through combined metro areas like Kirimitu-Fairfax, and Yarakira-Portridge at a stretch. Gautig indeed gained some new freeways since the last time I checked, and they maybe a bit overkill, similar to the new freeways around Schauming.
--Dono87 (talk) 17:21, 2 August 2020 (CEST)

I just want to say in general, I think it's pretty accurate the only thing I would say is I don't think Gobras City is quite a mega city yet. The sprawl could definitely turn it into one though. I agree that the population list should probably be something like Gobras City, Khaiwoon(I know its a separate country but it seems very connected to Gobrassanya and by the same token I think Gallaton should be the same), Laguna, Ontaro (On mapping but I think Puerto Geo and Ormeo definitely have cases for being bigger), Puerto Geo, Ormeo, Grand Lake (probably smaller but seems more important than Quesagnais from a geography perspective), Queensboro, Carrata, Kenrich. Personally I have no love for Laguna since it's geographic location is quite boring compared to the rest of the list, and I wouldn't mind if it was the down and out city form a cultural perspective. I think Artana is much smaller unless you make Gatetown through Fort Masser or even Cains a contiguous metro area, especially with an area like Lenox not making much sense at the moment as you pointed out (likely needs to be downscaled). Even then Artana could easily be in a Gobrassanya CSA with how streamlined (mountainous) the metro is outside of the national district meaning it's very like San Francisco like and places like Stockton are seeing super commuters, and much closer Morgan Hill is well in the CSA, being also about 99 km to SF, similar to Artana-GC. Other tidbits, I definitely think Ayala/Laguna are twin cities in the same MSA, while they haven't grown together yet, their only 15 miles apart, a city of 2,000,000 even if the area in between was never filled would definitely have somewhere like Ayala in its metro area. This doesn't relate much to you but Marapura is probably overestimated population wise since the area covered in land is only 1/4 of the city boundary, the other 3/4 is water.

Like I said I might seem a little critical just because tone can't be conveyed well online but your work is exemplary these are just a few of the possible issues I had.

Back to GC, I honestly don't think Ominoso/Tramonton/Margenson/Milaukasha is a seperate metropolitan area. The reason why I mention Tramanton is that I added much of the infrastructure (probably 40%), and made it on purpose a sleepy suburban town of probably 120,000 people, where everyone who doesn't work with horses is commuting to Ominoso or Gobras City. Tramonton is only 32 km away from Gobras City, the three big cities of Milaukasha/Ominosos/Margenson are all equally or more connected infrastructure as well as distance wise to Gobras City sprawl than they are too each other. I live in Houston and probably the best example would be a Galveston or Conroe to Houston which are both in the MSA, but until recently weren't physically connected. Galveston to Houston is 50 miles, all three of these cities to Gobrassanya is 25 miles give or take a few.mWhile Gobrassanya is definitely denser than American cities, especially in the core neighborhoods, I don't think it being a mega-city in the first world it could possibly have areas 25 miles away being a seperate metro area. I'm sure you already know this but MSA and CSA are based on commute times and so while the distance there can remain, due to the proximity it's likely thousands of people pass the 5-10 minutes of farmland to commute into the big city. Since big cities are bigger their MSA's just cover much more land since their catchment/hinterland region is much larger. I think it would make more sense to label the current CSA you have as the MSA.

So if you do combine them the MSA will be about 12.500.000 million, but is there really 12.500.000 million people? While Gobrassanya uses U.S style development with a large number of Highways and similar suburbs it's obvious that's it cities are denser than most American cities, maybe more in line with Canada than America (Canadian cities are built denser than American ones for a variety of reasons) In Gobrassanya's case the high amount of mountains and probably a historical tie to urbanism seen by Khaiwoon probably led to denser cities. I think all 3 states relating to Gobras City should probably lose anywhere from 500,000-1,000,000 people and the Naitonal district probably more. In general American suburban development has no density, the densest suburbs max out at 3,000 people per square km or 8,000 ppsm. Many of the suburban regions you see with densities that high or even higher, in reality just have a large cluster of apartments nearby which adds significantly to density but isn't seen easily on a map.While the traditional inner city is certainly denser than America, I don't think the suburbs will be much denser on average, maybe instead of 4,000 ppsm it's 5,000 in Gobrasanya and 6,000 ppsm in Gobras City. Because Gobras City is denser than most American cities at it's core I think Miami from a size and build perspective is one of the best metro areas to compare it too.

==== National District (estimate)

Inner Ring Gobras City is probably around the same size as Miami city limits, and it's likely twice to three times as dense (35,000 (low of 30,000, high of 40,000) ppsm is my guess it's reminiscent of Brooklyn or London with lots of apartments but neighborhood with houses as well, it's probably better to do a neighborhood by neighborhood analysis). So 36 (For inner ring) times 35,000. 1,260,000 for the inner loop of Gobras City, i'll round up to keep my numbers easier to add and more variable so 1.3 million. in the NW portion theirs the Airport included but everything North of the West Freeway and much of it is rural and it's roughly 100 square miles, even if the areas near the inner ring was dense, the density probably doens't exceed 4,000 ppsm in this area. so 400,000, making 1,700,000 people in the city now. NE, north of the East Freeway. Denser than NW, but not as dense as the Inner Ring, probably about 42 square miles, with likely 15,000 ppsm to account for areas like Setherway, and Fort Anah which are historical and denser than the outer suburbs, so 630,000 which like I said we always round up so 700,000. Roughly 2.4 millon. South-Central (West), so from Oziato to Harley roads west to the south freeway, north of Live Oak Boulevard/Connector/Parkway. about 24 square miles and definitely dense, reminds me a bit of Scarborough(Toronto) so I gave it 10,000 ppsm, roughly 240,000 so about 2.7 million total. South-Central (East), so basically the South Freeway to the SE Freeway/East Capitol Tollway (West border to East border), Xavier Anah up to the Inner Ring. This area is less than 10,000 for sure, even including Quayleepan the rest of it is far to suburban to matter, so I gave it exactly Scarborough's 8,700 density just to stretch the limits, and 46 square miles meaning, 400,200 people. I didn't round it up since it was so close to 400,000. So now 3.1 million people.

Next is East Central, so basically everything south of the East Freeway, north of Enalee/Soran/Baratipur without including them. Between the inner ring and the border. Ecotown is dense so I just gave the entire area 300,000 and called it a day, roughly 60 square miles for the rest of the region and a density of 10,000 as it seems to have very little suburban development but many parks as well as empty space, making it 900,000 total. So roughly 4,000,000 people. SE is basically everything south of East Central, and east of East Capital Tollway. The Southern most portion, South of the Xavier Anah Beltway is at 3,000 ppsm and is 16 square miles so 50,000 (rounded up a bit). The Triangle (between three highways) is at 6,000 ppsm and is all suburban with only density in the Enalee portion of the Triangle, in 12 square miles so 70,000 (rounded down a bit due to all the nature and highways). Soran/Baratipur/Enalee+Oak of Gobras is roughly 10 square miles and it's the dnesest part probably under 20,000 ppsm though so I put 15,000 since some of it is still empty 150,000. So 150+120 rounded up means roughly 300,000 people liver here. Making it a total of 4.3 million for the city now.

Southwest is South of Live Oak but, west of Capital Boulevard. It has a lot of unique urban communities and a University but also massive suburban area as well as a third of it being rural/industrial. So i'm gonna ballpark it evens out to the suburban average of roughly 6,000 ppsm and 70 square miles. You do the math and you get roughly 420,000. You could probably round down and be safe (which is what I did here rather than up). So now you get around 4.7 million people. Far South, which is the last and probably the least dense area in the city. This area only has Koquino Hills basically, and it's the region south of Xavier Anah Freeway. It's probably somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 ppsm, but for arguments sake i'll say its 2,000 people per square mile, and maybe 56 square miles so roughly 112,000 people. It's not dense enough to round up so i'll actually round down. So now we are at roughly 4.8 million people.

So lets say we get the rough area I calculated which is 472 square miles, (exactly the 472 square miles in the original post), lets say that inner ring is actually 40,000 ppsm you still get about 5,000,000 people, even if you increased the density in areas that could possibly be low by 5,000 ppsm or you increase by 1,000,000 people etc, the city realistically isn't built for 8,000,000 people, 6,000,000 is probably a stretch. I would say the National District has somewhere between 4.2 million and 5.4 million people. So let's go back to my 4.8 million number like I said I would probably take away 500,000-1,000,000 people from Ominoso-Margenson-Milaukasha metro area and combine it into the Gobras City metro area. The new MSA would probably be 7,000,000 people and would be the Gobras City-Ominoso-Margenson MSA (It would likely include Samunta, and possibly Havreg area). The three districts would combine for 10.8 million and with Havreg added in and a few outer areas added out it could be the CSA which would almost certainly be over 10,000,000 people.

If I have time I will try to insert a map to make my estimates easier to track.

Sorry for the long reply but it includes my main critics and why I think Gobras City is big but the area isn't that big and likely has 4,000,000 less people than it currently does.

--Portopolis (talk) 09:23, 4 August 2020 (CEST)

expressways

Route 202/A 202 Bangerter Express Hwy should remain as is. routing A-202 along airport expressway creates two orphan routes with a weird numbering scheme. Originally since Airport expressway was numbered as A-201 it should remain as A-201--Indyroads (talk) 17:53, 29 December 2014 (CET)

Currency

Proposing the name Gobrassian Dara G$ as the official currency for the country of Gobrassanya. The Dara would be divided into 100 Senn. Coin Denominations would be 1 Senn, 2 Senn, 5 Senn, 10 Senn, 25 Senn, 50 Senn, 1 Dara, Bills would be issued in denominations of 2 Daras, 5 Daras, 10 Daras, 25 Daras, 50 Daras, and 100 Daras. The currency would be about 2 times the value of the earth US dollar--Indyroads (talk) 05:55, 3 March 2015 (CET)

Sounds good to me. --Isleño (talk) 08:46, 3 March 2015 (CET)