Talk:Makaska

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Hi Luciano,

If you ever want to give an extra 17th/18th century taste to the motto, so that it matches colonial times, you may try one of these:

  • En myllieu des ondes claires et neige blanche, prospéritez
  • Au sein des ondes claires et neige blanche, prospéritez
  • Ceinct d'ondes claires et neige blanche, prospéritez

Or, with neige (snow) as a plural:

  • En myllieu des ondes claires et neiges blanches, prospéritez
  • Au sein des ondes claires et neiges blanches, prospéritez
  • Ceinct d'ondes claires et neiges blanches, prospéritez

NB: onde (wave) is a poetic word for a body of water. Neige could also be replaced by noif but I believe that by that time, it was already outdated. Aiki (talk) 16:23, 26 May 2018 (CEST)

@Aiki - thank you for this. It is interesting. I wonder about one thing - in my original I made it a simple noun phrase, roughly, "Prosperity amid clear water and white snow", while in all of your transfers to older French, you turned "prosper" into a verbal imperative, e.g. "Prosper amid...." Is that usual for a motto? I note that most Latin and English mottoes are not fully sentential, but just noun phrases (although surely there are exceptions). I think your use of a plural for snow has a more authentic feel for a romance language (cf. Spanish most certainly would have plurals). How about doing the same for waters and milieus too? e.g. "Prosperité en myllieux des eaux claires et des neiges blanches." Would "myllieux" be idiomatic? Actually, I prefer the "au sein", e.g. "Prosperité au sein des eaux claires et des neiges blanches."--Luciano (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2018 (CEST)

Hey, actually, prospéritez is just an old written form for prospérité, both pronounced the same. Imperative plural "prosper!" would be prospérez. So all the sentences I have written are nominal. In modern French, En myllieu would be au milieu (in the middle/always singular in that case) and ceinct, ceint (girt). I agree with you, au sein (in the bossom) sounds the best. It could indeed be Prospérité au sein des ondes/eaux claires et neiges blanches or with a postposition for "Prospérité": Au sein des ondes claires et neiges blanches, Prospérité. I like the feel of the postposition because it emphasizes "Prospérité: Among clear waters and white snows, (is) Prosperity". NB: as in literary Spanish, literary French avoids repeating the de/of before neiges/snows whereas common or spoken French would. Aiki (talk) 00:03, 27 May 2018 (CEST)

Being no expert in literary French, I'll take your advice. Not sure how I feel about the postposition, but anyway we could always suppose there are two variants, one with prospérité at the end, and one with it at the beginning. I do prefer "eaux" over "ondes" - partly because since so many of the Makaskan lakes are so small, they're not actually very "wavy" if that makes sense. Rather, they sit there, calmly. But I'm not sure if that's semantically relevant for the French. Certainly in Spanish ondas has the same implication of water-in-motion as in English. So current draft is: "Au sein des eaux claires et neige blanches, prospérité." Eventually I hope to create a state seal with this motto on it, and a nice brown buffalo tromping in some snow snow beside a lake, but my computer-based artistic skills are limited.--Luciano (talk) 01:06, 27 May 2018 (CEST)

Hi Luciano, all those lakes look great! The care you take with your mapping is always something I aspire to. I'm trying to achieve something a bit like it in Østermark but haven't come anywhere close yet. And thanks for the nominal honor of not one but two lakes! --Demuth (talk) 16:35, 27 May 2018 (CEST)

Hi Luciano, I read your comment on the seal and made a try with collage and some quick modification (if you want to use/modify it, I'll give you the different credits). It was the first time I went that far with Inkscape. It goes without saying that the seal is modifiable (with the scalable drawing it will be easier for you). Aiki (talk) 20:34, 28 May 2018 (CEST)
Wow, @Aiki... that is awesome, and very generous of you to have done. I would use it happily, and give you naming rights on something interesting in the state, too, if you're interested. I really like it. It's quite interesting, actually. One could write a short treatise on interpreting the symbolism.--Luciano (talk) 04:07, 29 May 2018 (CEST)

Not at all, I was happy to give you a hand and I'm glad you like the design. The .svg file is here. Feel free to adapt it if you wish. It's basically a rendition of the State motto with Lady Prosperity at its center. By the way, you may rename her Lady Makaska, the Makaska Maiden or something like Makaskana/Makaskia as some kind of state personification ;-) You may also reuse the outline of the buffalo on your flag. Even though I'm just an observer, I find the the general idea of the FSA fascinating and keep being mesmerised by the details of Makaska's outer and inner coastlines - something between Karelia and the upper part of the Lower Peninsula (Michigan). Thanks for the naming offer. You may use my pseudo "Aiki" for a lake, river or an island. It's a completely made-up name but Makaska context, it sounds a bit "Native American", so you can use it as such or written Eyeke/Eyekee/Eye-Kee or any other disguise that keeps the /'ajki/ sounding. Aiki (talk) 20:12, 29 May 2018 (CEST)

Etymology

Hello, Luciano.

I do not know which real-life Native American language you are using for the etymology of 'Makaska,' but what I do know is that a similar word in Sioux, 'Mazaska,' means 'silver.' It could be a possible root for the name 'Makaska' because of some industry or figurative language?

Thanks!

IiEarth (talk) 06:33, 21 December 2019 (CET)iiEarth

I use the Dakota language ("Sioux" but Dakota people do not accept this name, it is an insult). Inside OGF I call this language "Rakhoda", but all etymologies are authentically Dakota. I studied the language for one year in university. Maka-ska means White Earth or White Land. All "Rakhoda" names in Makaska have similar "real" etymologies. Ohunkagan means Myth or Legend. Iyotanhaha means Great Waterfall. There are hundreds of Rakhoda names in the State. My main resource.--Luciano (talk) 00:17, 14 February 2020 (CET)