Talk:OGF:Sandbox/TripleCity

From OpenGeofiction Encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Owner of UL165, please message to [LemonKing] if you are interested in developing the Triple City further. Thank You!


So, this page is for discussing the Bloregian-Altavian-Eäßnordælåndian Triple City that will be located in the area linked here: [1] . This will be a fun project, I look forward to it! :) --LemonKing (talk) 13:34, 12 June 2018 (CEST)

Name of the city and its parts

Do we have a single city with one name or three adjacent cities with different names? The closest real-world comparison might be Basel, which is officially name of the swiss city, but in practice used for the whole German-French-Swiss city area. [2] I think this might be a good starting point. The name might be something "beary", connecting to the river Björnelv, e.g. Björnhof, or Björnborg (a tribute to the Swedish tennis legend!). ..LemonKing (talk) 15:25, 12 June 2018 (CEST)

In fact, that there is a city in Finland with the Swedish name Björneborg (Pori) so maybe Björnborg is a bit too real-world...--LemonKing (talk) 15:03, 13 June 2018 (CEST)

I think we can give a name related to the river,a nearby mountain or a name that means'the three city' in all languages. --Blgmtn (talk) 00.16, 19 June 2018(EEST)

What about Gaffelstad, "fork town" in Swedish. The word "gaffel" is not used about river forks in RW Swedish, which gives the name a fictional edge. Of course, you could modify the name a little to translate i to your respective languages. In Bloregian, it would be Riffezaad. --LemonKing (talk) 10:34, 23 June 2018 (CEST)

I can translate it to Eäßnorælåndic as: Flödgäfjorstäd(River Fork City) or Gäfjorstäd (Fork City) --Blgmtn (talk) 15.55, 23 June 2018(EEST)

I think Gäfjorstäd is more practical. What's the Altavian variant of the name? --LemonKing (talk) 19:23, 26 June 2018 (CEST)

Gaffel should translate to fork in Altavian too, as it does in Norwegian, although I prefer byen over stad. There is no ä or ö in the Altavian alphabet, (just å, æ, ø, and é, and no x or z). Perhaps it could translate to Gaffelsbyen, or something similar? (I don't like the lb sound, so I added the s, although it may not be fully announced.) This is hard. --Infrarrojo (talk) 23:10, 27 June 2018 (CEST)

Gaffelsbyen in an option, if we want translations. One option is to create an international name for the whole city, a name that is not translated but used "as is" in all languages. It could be Gaffelstad, Gaffstad, Gaffelby, Gaffeln or similar. or we can still consider completely different names. In addition, I think the separate cities should have distictive names. You must know if people talk about one country's side only or the whole area. This is hard, as said. --LemonKing (talk) 12:08, 28 June 2018 (CEST)


General outline of the city: size, mapping style etc

Triple City suggestion 1.png

Here something to start from. I have outlined main roads on Bloregian side and a suggestion for central parts. This is just a preliminary sketch. Please comment! --LemonKing (talk) 14:11, 12 June 2018 (CEST).

Suggested RW comparisons:

  • The triple city Basel, 170.000 inhabitants on the Swiss side only. We could go bigger if we want, at least up to 200.000 each.
  • Nordic twin cities like Helsingborg-Helsingør or Tornio-Haparanda
  • Old city and castle like in Prague
  • Hillside residentials like in Oslo.

Other ideas? ..LemonKing (talk) 16:19, 12 June 2018 (CEST)

I think I'll start today mapping the old city- and as you suggested I'll use Prague as a model. I lived there for a tiny bit and I see that old city is on my side of the area so I think that's reasonable. --Infrarrojo (talk) 13:50, 18 June 2018 (CEST)

Looks nice so far! I love Prague, have visited twice. :=) --LemonKing (talk) 09:48, 19 June 2018 (CEST)

I started mapping a commercial area in my part I think the city should have a lot of bridges like London.I want to ask how we are going to plan the residential areas? --Blgmtn (talk) 00.16, 19 June 2018(EEST)

It is nice with many bridges, but I think the downtown has enough of them already. The main river is quite wide, so too many bridges is not realistic. The northern river fork (I renamed it Martisula, Wolverine River) could be narrower, so a denser network of bridges would be justified. I changes one of the bridges from Eäßn. to Bloregia into a pedestrian bridge. The Bloregian downtown riverside will have a light-traffic greenfield area like in Kraków. --LemonKing (talk) 09:48, 19 June 2018 (CEST)

In Bloregia, the administrative buildings will be in the commercial area east of Old Bridge[3]. The area north of Old Bridge[4] is a former fishermen's and factory worker's residential area, perhaps from a time when the city was in one country only (100 years ago or more). Nowadays it is a touristic shopping and dining area and an expensive residential area for diplomats and businessmen. Siggezaad is semi-modern area from 1950 or so. Sununett peninsula will have some kind of attraction/landmark. A few kilometres from downtown, Bloregia will have industrial areas by the river here[5] and here[6]. Affordable residentials will be on the hillside on both sides of the motorway. A major suburb, originally a separate town, will be created here[7]. --LemonKing (talk) 09:48, 19 June 2018 (CEST)

Here's a map. You can freely edit this file and upload updated versions to replace this one, the changes will then render here. --LemonKing (talk) 10:04, 19 June 2018 (CEST)
Another map for suggested railways (it seems easier to draw the suggestions than to explain). For Bloregia, I prefer a drive-through railway station. You guys could decide if you want end-stations (terminus) to get closer downtown. --LemonKing (talk) 18:19, 19 June 2018 (CEST)

I would prefer terminus station with one railway passing through east.I want to connect center of the city with public transportation.Like London --Blgmtn (talk) 22.29, 19 June 2018(EEST)

Ok, Blgmtn, but please specify: do you want me to map the railway across your border or should I terminate the rail to Bloregia? I think it be realistic to have the border-crossing rail connection, if not in the city, perhaps a bit further north. I didn't get what you meant by "passing through east" --LemonKing (talk) 08:54, 20 June 2018 (CEST)
I mean, it is realistic that Weßterhävn railway connects to the rest of Eäßnordælånd via TriCity area, not only via Blöndel. Of coursse, there is the option of connecting via Altavia. --LemonKing (talk) 09:01, 20 June 2018 (CEST)
Altavia's system isn't built yet. When it is, it will probably mirror the current highway system, connecting the coastal cities and TriCity (and possibly Ezelvenbourg, although that remains to be seen.)--Infrarrojo (talk) 19:03, 20 June 2018 (CEST)

I would prefer a terminus station in my country too.So please map the rail across my border I will map it to the city and map a terminus station.--Blgmtn (talk) 21.39, 21 June 2018(EEST)

Bank island?

Another map...

The idea of a shared Bank island was good, here are the primary options as I see it. --LemonKing (talk) 10:04, 19 June 2018 (CEST)

On the Bank island plan: I made some calculations and I think I can fit an island in the river fork realistically without changes to your territories, by modifying my side only – even so that the main river flows from south to north on the west side ot the island. It would be best though if, Infrarrojo, you could make the greenfield narrower by the Old Bridge and make the bridge just a bit longer. And blgmtn, I ask for permission to make some minor modifications to the shape of the end of your peninsula (plus minus 15 meters maximum) as a part of the island mapping project. --LemonKing (talk) 09:03, 22 June 2018 (CEST)

Ok LemonKing mapped the bank but what are we going to do about the currency?--Blgmtn (talk) 18.59, 24 June 2018(CEST)

I suggest we call the currency something like "Goldlöck", as a reference to the fairy-tale "Goldilocks and the Three Bears"[8]. Banknotes (and city emblem) could portray three bears as symbols of our three nations. A version of the fairy-tale could be a local myth explaining the name "Bear River" and other bear-related names in the region. --LemonKing (talk) 09:41, 25 June 2018 (CEST)

Will we use the currency in the just in the city or in the whole country?If the answer is just the city the name 'Goldlöck' or Löckkronn' is OK but if we are going to use the currency in Altavia,Bloregia and Eäßnordælånd we should have a more general name.I suggest something like 'Nordkronn'. --Blgmtn (talk) 15.06, 24 June 2018(CEST)

The currency, of course, would be used in the whole three-country area. I just think the city with the central bank is in a way a symbol of our union. But 'Nordkronn' is a good name in my opinion. --LemonKing (talk) 11:31, 26 June 2018 (CEST)

If the name is OK we can now decide the fractional unit(s) and the ISO code I suggest NDK.Btw.you can look at this list: https://wiki.opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/List_of_Currencies before suggesting a code and check if the code is occupied or not.--Blgmtn (talk) 12.03, 26 June 2018(CEST)

NDK is not on that list. I'm up for changing Altavia's currency to Nordkronn. The existing Altævan Lisoeta (I think?) is not developed anyway, so I'll change it on Altavia's page.

If everyone if OK I will add the currency on the list and change my country's currency.But we should find a fractional unit.--[User:Blgmtn|Blgmtn]] (talk) 17.04, 26 June 2018(CEST)

So Nordkronn it is! First big name desicion --LemonKing (talk) 19:19, 26 June 2018 (CEST)

I made an article for it at Nordkronn, which all of you can add to. --Infrarrojo (talk) 23:17, 27 June 2018 (CEST)

History

Old Town

Old Town with labels. --Infrarrojo (talk) 14:41, 26 June 2018 (CEST)

The old town is all labeled up, if you have any ideas/suggestions you can write them here or replace the map if you want to visualize it. (Sorry that the edit count and stuff got in the way, I tried to get the fullest snapshot that I could. --Infrarrojo (talk) 14:41, 26 June 2018 (CEST)

My knowledge of WikiForum is very limited, so I just copied LemonKing's formatting. It's a couple sections below this one. Anyways, I have stocked part of the old town with bridle paths (in the idea that the rich people would ride horses into town. (I'd never do this because I'm allergic to horses) This is a pretty old custom from what I've heard, so how old will the old town be? Altavia has a pretty long history that I wrote while I was on a computer that couldn't really do anything else. Should it fit somewhere into there? If so, which period should it go in? Anyway, these aren't urgent questions, I'm just looking for ideas now. --Infrarrojo (talk) 14:48, 26 June 2018 (CEST)

As a main principles for history writing, llet's consider what has already written in the wiki and sanboxes like Talk:OGF:Sandbox/World War. But let's not be too specific, because the history may change as territories change owners and as sandboxes develop. We could vaguely refer to superpower allies to explain wars between our countries in the past.

I have this idea: Before the latest war (World War?), Anders Lang would have been part of Altavia and Weßterhävn would have had land connection to the rest of Eäßnordælånd. TripleCity could have been part of Eäßnordæŀånd with border close to Grandvale, but the city could have been Altavian earlier, in medieval times. Altavia (with allies) could have started the latest war to protect its mining an to reconquer the long-lost TripleCity. Bloregia would have lost other territories in the east or north, but its winning allies would have forced Alt. and Eäß. to give Anders Lang and the southern hill area to Bloregia as a compensation (like Sweden got Norway after the Napoleonic Wars). The international peace treaty would have divided TriCity between the three nations and started an era of peaceful cooperation. This could have happened 100 years ago or so. --LemonKing (talk) 12:08, 28 June 2018 (CEST)

Let's move the general history discussion to Talk:OGF:Sandbox/TripleCountry. I posted a map there. --LemonKing (talk) 14:18, 28 June 2018 (CEST)

Railway History

This topic might very detailed and unnecessary but I think to form the city,stations and even museums and historical sites realisticly we need to discuss this.
I will upload a map of Gäfjorstäd's railway history and current layout. --Blgmtn 14:45, 9 July 2018 (CEST)

Station Number 1

The station was built-it was the first station in Gäforstäd- and was operated by Gärrlånd Trains.Then when Gärrlånd was distributed along Bloregia and Altavia the company was collapsed and station was closed.Later the station was turned into a railway museum.

Name History

  1. Gäfjorstäd Central-First opened
  2. Gäfjorstäd Söd-When "Station Number 2" opened--Blgmtn 15:42, 9 July 2018 (CEST)

Station Number 2

TBD--Blgmtn 15:42, 9 July 2018 (CEST)

Railways in Gäfjorstäd.I wrote "demolished" in Station Number 1 it should be "used as a museum"--Blgmtn 15:42, 9 July 2018 (CEST)

River: width, details, islands, harbours etc

International institutions and other shared units

Areas

Airport(s)?

Should there be an airport? Or even three? That depends on how big will the city be. I think, for a city less than a million, only one airport is needed, and perhaps military bases as spare airports in the remaining two countries. --LemonKing (talk) 16:26, 20 June 2018 (CEST)

I think there should just be one in-city, and the Granvalian airport could serve as an alternative (at only 25 km away). That doesn't exist now, but it could if we choose to go down this path. Like you said, military bases could be used as spare airports closer. --Infrarrojo (talk) 18:59, 20 June 2018 (CEST)


I think to make it realistic we should map the airport a little bit far away from the mountain in the north.--Blgmtn (talk) 21.39, 21 June 2018(EEST)

I agree. If Grandvale is a secondary airport, the primary one could be in the opposite direction, north-east, close to the bypass motorway in this area[9]. If the Eäßnordælåndian side of the river valley is flatter than the Bloregian one, the airport would be best in Eäßnordælånd, but we could plan and map it together. Bloregia could have an air base i the north-west, i can adjust the mountains a bit to make it fit. --LemonKing (talk) 08:35, 22 June 2018 (CEST)

Harbour(s)

I am planning to build a harbour here:https://opengeofiction.net/#map=14/63.2516/51.9072.I also want to establish a company named:Norrline.The company is going to serve freight and passenger services through rivers,the Vinn Sea and further.--Blgmtn (talk) 21.39, 21 June 2018(EEST)

Cool! Before you start on the harbour, I recommend you make the river more detailed, in agreement with infrarrojo. First add more nodes to the riverline and bend it, then map the riverbank. I think it'd be most practical if one of you draws both sides of the river. Please remember to add the company to the VEC business list. --LemonKing (talk) 08:51, 22 June 2018 (CEST)

Border details, enclaves/exclaves etc

Other discussion

Dividing the work

I would be wise to divide the work so that one person could map some features to the whole city, not only to own territory. Here are some subsectors. Please suggest yourself or someone else to take on each sector. When all agree, mapping can start. (Not all sectors need to be centralized to one person.)

General outlines to be mapped first:

  • Street grid for main roads and main streets
  • General definition of landuse: residentials, industrials, parks, commercial...
  • Area names

Details:

  • Collective traffic: bus stops and tram lines, tourist ferry stops etc.
I suggest blgmtn take this challenge --LemonKing (talk) 10:55, 22 June 2018 (CEST)
Yes I can take this one. --Blgmtn (talk) 12:38,22 June 2018 (EEST)
I want to ask you if suburban rail is included to this.If yes I want to learn about your countries rail system is it like:
England?(Franchise System)
Most European Countries like Finland (VR),Sweden(SJ) or Germany(DB)? (Controlled by a major company but there are some small regional companies)
Like Turkey?(Not an extensive rail system-transportation using coach) --Blgmtn (talk) 17:51,25 June 2018 (CEST)
The Bloregian rail network is state-owned and intercity traffic monopolized. Local train traffic is open for competition. TriCity collective traffic could operate on Bloregian rails to some extent. --LemonKing (talk) 09:21, 26 June 2018 (CEST)
I also want to ask you permition to map tram,bus,underground and regional train lines in your parts of the Tri-City.I may have to modify some existing lines and map some underground and train stations.--Blgmtn (talk) 23:33,25 June 2018 (CEST)
Your're free to map local traffic in the Bloregian side, but consider these things: (1) You can place some stations to the rail network and make suggestions for its expansion, but please do not extend the Bloregian rails without special agreement. (2) Please map the underground realistically, so that the rails curve smoothly; not as a "diagram" with 90 degree angles. Also keep realistical space between stations: at least 400 m downtown, 1-2 km in suburbs. (3) Do not hurry, wait for the residentials areas to take form so you can see where the collective traffic is needed. (On the other hand, lines can be modified later when the city grows.) (4) Please make underground go overground in the suburbs, it is cheeper to build and therefore more realistic.--LemonKing (talk) 09:21, 26 June 2018 (CEST)
I plan a transportation system majorly formed by tram,bus and ferry lines.Rail to connect suburban areas.Like-real life example-Basel.So I don't think a city with 600.000 population (3x200.000) would not have an extensive metro system.So Infrarrojo I think you need to turn this subway line:https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/63.2614/51.8165 to a tram line but the decision is yours.If you give perrmision I can map a tram network in your part too.--Blgmtn (talk) 11:52,26 June 2018 (CEST)
Okay, you can map in my area. The subway is a draft of the first rail system I though of, you can change it to any type of rail you want. It's kind of like a beta public transport route with an undecided method. --Infrarrojo (talk) 14:38, 26 June 2018 (CEST)
I mapped the transportation headquarters of the cities here:https://opengeofiction.net/#map=19/63.26479/51.82731.I thought the name should be Ingerish(English) to make it more international so I thought it could be TfTC (Transport for Triple City).But I am open for any suggestions.--Blgmtn (talk) 21:37,26 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Retails stores, shopping area details with brand names etc.
I could take this one --LemonKing (talk) 10:55, 22 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Schools, libraries, kindergartens
I think evey country have different school systems so we should do this individually. --Blgmtn (talk) 12:38,22 June 2018 (EEST)
Ok, that's good for me. But perhaps we could split the higher education? We could have three university campuses, but universities specialized in different fields: One medical school, one university of technology, one faculty of commerce, one university of arts & theology, one for social sciences etc. --LemonKing (talk) 11:16, 24 June 2018 (CEST)
I can take the university of technology.--Blgmtn (talk) 15:28,24 June 2018 (CEST)
I'll do arts and theology, as Altavia's university is next to some museums and the old town. --Infrarrojo (talk) 23:10, 27 June 2018 (CEST)
I can map a university with faculties for medicine, natural sciences and social sciences. --LemonKing (talk) 12:08, 28 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Hospitals, doctors, dentists
I can take the main responsibility for medical mapping. The biggest hospital should be close to a medical faculty, so we could agree upon the universities first (see above on Schools etc.). --LemonKing (talk) 11:16, 24 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Fire stations, police stations, army buildings
I could map fire stations. Police stations and [edit:] army buildings could be created mostly individually. --LemonKing (talk)
  • Industrial area and harbour details
I would like to create harbours. --Blgmtn (talk) 12:38,22 June 2018 (EEST)
  • Traffic details: crossing details, traffic lights, bridges, one-way roads etc
I can take this one too. --Blgmtn (talk) 12:38,22 June 2018 (EEST)
Go ahead, and please include some light traffic lanes (no need for that as separate sector, so I removed it). --LemonKing (talk) 11:16, 24 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Parks, recreation areas
I'll take this up! --Infrarrojo (talk) 20:16, 22 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Sports facilities
  • Religious buildings, cemeteries
I suggest LemonKing do this, because they've already built a cemetery. --Infrarrojo (talk) 20:18, 22 June 2018 (CEST)
Ok, I can do this. --LemonKing (talk) 11:16, 24 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Museums, attractions, landmarks
I'll take this too! --Infrarrojo (talk) 20:16, 22 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Street names
  • Residential buildings, minor streets, minor buildings
We could do this mixed: mostly own territory, but we give each other some areas, so we get a mosaic of different mapping styles representing different decades. --LemonKing (talk) 11:16, 24 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Recycling system: waste bins, recycle centers
I can also take this--Blgmtn (talk) 15:31,22 June (CEST)
  • Culture & entertainment: museums, theatres, concert halls etc.
  • Powerlines
We can make this individually, I just remind that you leave some space powerlines in the suburbs. Our main powerlines can connect outside the city area. --LemonKing (talk) 11:16, 24 June 2018 (CEST)
  • Please add more if comes to mind...

Dividing the work: summary of the above, June 27th 2018:

Blgmtn: Collective traffic, harbours, traffic details, recycling

LemonKing: retail/shopping, medical, fire stations, religion

Infrarrojo: parks, recreation, museums, attractions, landmarks

Individually: Schools, libraries, kindergartens, police, army, powerlines

Others:

  • residential: map own territory, but give others some areas to map
  • higher education: map own territory, but communicate to avoid overlapping
    • blgmtn: Univ. of technology

Open questions:

  • industry, except harbours
  • theaters, concert halls
  • sports
  • landuse and street grid: own territory only, if not other agreements? --LemonKing (talk) 08:24, 27 June 2018 (CEST)

Castle

Hey! It's been a while since I named the castle, and it still doesn't have a name. Let's discuss what the name should be. Should it be related to the city's name or to the name of a famous/royal person (if so from which country)? --Infrarrojo (talk) 21:27, 22 June 2018 (CEST)

I think we should firs discuss the 3. topic 'History' first if we want to name historically.But if we want to name related to the city's name we need to find city's name first --Blgmtn (talk) 22:39,22 June 2018 (EEST)

We should name the city soon... but I think the castle could be named after some Altavian king or hero. The name could be picked even if the history details remain to be written later. The castle could have had different names under different conquerors, but that can be discussed later, too. --LemonKing (talk) 10:37, 23 June 2018 (CEST)