Talk:PL:OGF:O OpenGeofiction

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I feel that "OGF:O OpenGeofiction" (OGF:About OpenGeofiction) would be a better title. "OGF:Info o OpenGeofiction" seems rather informal and I don't think it's even correct as "Info" isn't a word that exist in Polish (and if it does then it's definetely a new addition). Also, shouldn't the specific language pages be prefixed with their language code? "PL:OGF:O OpenGeofiction", "DE:OGF:War ist OpenGeofiction", "FR:OGF:À Propos de OpenGeofiction"? That's the case with the FAQ pages, but for some reason not "about" pages. --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 21:09, 13 February 2018 (CET)

There definitely should be a prefix. If there ever is a Czech version, it's going to be titled O Opengeofiction as well. --Eklas (talk) 21:43, 13 February 2018 (CET)
After two years, it's done. Can an admin edit the template with languages to link to the proper page and not the redirect? --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 09:43, 28 June 2020 (CEST)
would've been most appropriate to wait another 2 years before making the change, however I became impatient. —Stjur (talkOGF) 15:10, 29 June 2020 (CEST)

Well I did a big redaction of this page and I must say the previous author isnt probably a native speaker of polish, had very low language expertise or tried to translate the text exactly from english to polish despite the differences between these two languages. Now it looks better but I think the whole section Rules should be completely rewritten to sound naturally in polish. On the other hand I'm afraid of doing that because about pages in other languages which I can understand a bit (Netherlandic and German) are very closely translated from English. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 14:15, 14 February 2018 (CET)

I remade the page some time ago, this was my translation. I am in fact a native speaker (whose articles made it to local press!), and the whole point of translation is to make the page say the same things as the original, but in other language. I'll go through your changes:
- "to strona oparta" instead of "opiera się" - This is a cosmetic change.
- "rzeczywistości paralelnej do rzeczywistej" instead of "w czasach współczesnych" - This is a rather big change. The original version says here about the world being set in modern times, and not about the OGF world being a paralel of the real world. I definetely don't agree with the change as it significantly changes the tone of this sentence. Also, what is this world, paralelnej? This is an unnecesary English word thrown into a Polish text. Równoległej is the world that's fitting there.
I can't agree, "równoległy" can mean everything, without any connection, it can be any world, even with orcs and elves and this whole magical thing. Paralelny means that it is similar in some aspects to the earth (see definition, in case of OGF it means everything except the geography and history. I can agree only with the statement that it is a loan world from english but there is no our word which exacly fits here and I tried to avoid a longer explanation. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "nie ma w nim" instead of "nie ma" - This is a cosmetic change as well. When I wrote "nie ma" I meant "it doesn't have orcs, elves etc.", you changed it into "there are no... in it".
- "zamiast tego są" instead of "raczej" - This is a cosmetic change but I cannot agree with it. It's rather ugly and if I were to change it then I would definetely drop the "są".
Well, all my life I have written sentences like this and noone have problems with this (and I won some competitions in... ee... gimnazjum, sometimes I write articles to wpolityce), for me this lack of predicate seems unnatural a bit but I can agree it is the question of different sense of style. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "Można też spotkać" instead of "Ale również" - Another cosmetic change.
- "wziąć udział" instead of "pomóc" - Cosmetic change. Sounds a little bit better but it's also a little bit further away from the original (take part instead of help).
- "swojego" instead of "twojego" - Typo fix.
- "rysować mapę" instead of "od razu" - This is another significant change as it gives the sentence a different meaning. It is "to draw a map" instead of "right away". I'm not sure if it is even correct, as you don't "rysujesz mapę" but rather "mapujesz ją". According to the dictionary "mapować - (1) przyporządkowywać zasoby systemowe do innych, zwykle wirtualnych; (2) tworzyć schemat czegoś, np. jakiegoś zjawiska; (3) oznaczać na mapie szczegóły terenu na podstawie materiałów uzyskanych z pomiarów lub materiałów źródłowych; kartować". I think that mapping on OGF fits into the last definition, despite the fact that there aren't any sources checked nor measurements made to create it.
Well in fact I would rather miss the "od razu" and "rysować mapę". If you say "możesz zacząć" adding "od razu" sounds a little bit like tautology. It is acceptable while speaking, in writing it is a style mistake. Well, the third mean is something which is something met in newer geodesy books but it means the whole process, including collecting the data from the tarrain and load the data to program and then finally draw a map. That's why I changed "mapować" to "ryswać mapę" because it is what we do here. We don't collect the data, it's not OSM. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "rysować" instead of "mapować" - The same thing as above.
- "(miniaturka po prawej), które są dostępne dla wszystkich użytkowników" instead of "(miniaturka po prawej). Te państwa są dostępne dla wszystkich do edycji" - Sentences were merged, cosmetic change. But on the end of the sentence there is another subtle shift of meaning, from "for all to edit" to "for all users".
Without being registered an user you can't draw a map. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "po czym" instead of "i" - Cosmetic change.
- "intensywnej pracy" instead of "intensywnym mapowaniu" - The same thing as with "wziąć udział/pomóc". Sounds a little better yet it doesn't mean the same as in the original.
- Honestly why did you even bother with shifting " to „? It's such an insignificant detail that nobody cares, computer keyboards don't even have this sign. Polish uses it, but it's going to be a pain to update when sudennly a big amount of brackets appears in the original version.
Because it's an official page for new users. Everything here should be as good as possible. In writing private messeges I am not that rigorous :). In fact in polish it is acceptable to ignore the brackets here but if they should stay, they should be correct. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "dostępne państwa są zaznaczone" instead of "pokazane"; "kontaktując się" instead of "poprzez kontakt" - Cosmetic changes again.
Maybe cosmetic but it is another style mistake. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "administratorami OGF" instead of "administratorem; bądź:" - Why did you change it to plural? There is one "admin" account newbies are supposed to write to. It's obvious that we mean OGF administration, so there is no need to specify that we mean OGF. Another thing, why did you cut "or" at the end of the sentence?
Well, the account is one but it is visible to all administrators so I think plural fits better. The second thing depends on rules of creating lists like this. It's ather complicated thing which is known mostly for teachers and redactors but if we create the list where in one point we have the sentence it should end with a dot. In this case "bądź" is just unnecessary here, it could stay if it will all be one sentence (without any points) but it is too big ingerention to original. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "a także" instead of "i możesz również"; "Prosząc" instead of "Przy prośbie"; "przed rozpoczęciem rysowania należy zaczekać na pozytywne rozpatrzenie prośby przez administratora" instead of "proszę pamiętać, że takie prośby rozpatrza administrator, więc proszę czekać na potwierdzenie zanim rozpoczniesz edycje" - Yet another cosmetic changes.
Maybe but even if it is cosmetic there is no word "rozpatrzać", only "rozpatrywać". --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "rzeczywistości" instead of "realności" - "Rzeczywistości" implies that you need to stick to what is real, while "Realności" forces being realistic but not copying the real world.
Well, I think they are synonyms here, I changed a loan word to native --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "importu" instead of "importów" - Another cosmetic change.
There is no plurat from import. Well it is possible to create it according to gramatical rules (and it is sometimes incorrectly done) but it is still a neologism. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "Robiąc to" instead of "Robienie tych rzeczy sprawi, że" - "Robiąc to" makes it look like you are going to get banned while doing that, my version tells that doing these things will cause you to get banned.
In fact both sentences means the same "Robiąc to" don't implify any time, it could be any possible future but I think it souds better. Again it depends on individual sense of style. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "nazw spółek" instead of "spółek" - Typo fix.
No, no typo. It is meritorical change. We can't place a "spółka" on a map because "spółka" means the whole company. If I would be extremaly malicious I could say that leaving only "spółek" we can't place any companies that provide any services available in RW (i. e. mining, airlines etc.)
- "dopuszczone do wolnego użytku" instead of "wolne do użytku" - Another one of these "little change of meaning, sounds a little better in Polish" edits.
No, it's just official formula used in law. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "autorskich" instead of "autorkich" - Typo fix. I have a broken keyboard that sometimes doesn't recognise that I pressed "s".
- "rysowania" instead of "rysowania" - YOU DON'T DRAW A MAP, YOU MAP IT!!!!oneoneone111!!!1! IN POLISH IT WORKS THE SAME WAY AS IN ENGLISH!!!! If you really want to substitute it with something else then "tworzenia map" would be the right choice.
No, you can't. See above. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "Granice z niezajętymi państwami możesz przesuwać do 10 km względem oryginalnej granicy" instead of "Co do edytowania granic z niezajętymi państwami, zmiany możesz prowadzić do 10km od oryginalnej granicy" - Cosmetic change.
- "kont-pacynek. Dopuszcza się tylko jeden" instead of "kont-kukiełek. Jeden"; "wandalizmów" instead of "wandalizmu" - Cosmetic changes.
Konto is neuter gender so at least "jedno" not "jeden" and the plural seems better because I don't know if any user was banned because of one vandalism (which could be a mistake). The additional accouns are called "pacynka in Wikipedia so I decided to change this. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "opisywania rzeczy, których nie narysowałeś na mapie" instead of "ekstensywnego opisywania twojego państwa na Wiki bez mapowania" - This implies that you cannot describe things that are in the blue/purple countries drawn by others. You can make some articles on things you haven't drawn yet (or things that aren't visible on the map), but it's key to make the article high quality and not to overdo it. Or at least this is my interpretation of Overwikification.
Well, I can agree with this statement. But "ekstensywny" is not a word needed here. It means rozciągły which suggest we can't write long articles. Maybe I should just change it to "opisywania nieistniejących w OGF rzeczy" or something. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
- "Jeśli nie będziesz aktywny przez dłuższy czas, możemy zaznaczyć twoje terytorium jako oczekujące na odebranie. Później, pod warunkiem, że dalej nie zauważymy zmian bądź nie nawiążesz z nami kontaktu w rozsądnym czasie, oznaczymy terytorium jako wolne i zamkniemy twoje konto" instead of "Po przedłużonej nieaktywności możemy zaznaczyć twoje terytorium jako oczekujące na odebranie. Później, jeśli dalej nie zauważymy zmian bądź nie będzie z tobą kontaktu przez następne tygodnie, oznaczymy twoje terytorium jako wolne i zamkniemy twoje konto" - This is a paragraph full of cosmetic changes.
- "może skutkować wstrzymaniem" instead of "może wstrzymaniem" - Typo fix. I ate a word there. I have no idea how did it happen, but somehow it did.
- "Backupy" instead of "Migawki" - There was no reason to replace the Polish word with an English word there.
I've never heard about using the word "migawka" here. Official polish dictionary doesn't know this meaning but maybe people from IT use it. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)
The rest are cosmetic changes, so I don't see the need to describe them. Overall I disagree with many of your edits, as much as I disagree that my translation sounds unnatural and forced. I will edit the article changing some of your additions back, especially those with "drawing a map". --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 18:25, 14 February 2018 (CET)
Sorry to interrupt but in English you definitely "draw a map".. or you could "map a location".. you don't "map a map" because that would be silly. Hope that helps. Ruadh (talk) 19:03, 14 February 2018 (CET)
In the end I would say yes, the most of my changes are cosmetic because it can't go far from original version. But your version was full of typo's and small meritorical mistakes which in the end makes article very non-representational which is important in pages like this. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 20:35, 14 February 2018 (CET)