Talk:Slevs

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User:JoJoBa's history of the East-Ulethan Slevs.
User:JoJoBa's distribution of Slevic nations.

I want to know, where do 'Slevs' come from, and how do they look now. I have gathered a few informations, and looks like they originate in Suria. I have studied the East-Ulethan Slevic nations, and this is probably the best history I could think of. Tell me what do you think. Note, that I forgot that Slevs also live in other parts of Uletha, so the names will probably changed to XXXX Egalian Slevs (where XXXX can be changes by the adjectives from the GIF file. JoJoBa (talk) 17:09, 5 August 2019 (CEST)

I also distributed all Slevic nations I could find. If I missed any, or some don't look Slevic, tell me before yelling at me. JoJoBa (talk) 18:14, 5 August 2019 (CEST)
So if I may I repeat my answer here:
I have written this before you wrote in the Slevs discussion. But this is not how the linguistics works. It doesn't follow geographic nor political divisions but the "linguistical distance" - the question is how the languages are similar to each other. According to this asumption I will still oppose the separation of Galicja from other Slevic peoples in the region, because Galician belongs to the same language continuity (and is closely related to Drabantian and Lorantian) so they had to migrate from Suria as well. Small gap beetween Galicja and others isn't a problem. Remember RW example of Slavs divided by Hungarians and Germans. This also solves the problem of existence of Szlonsk because as given in the eponymous article they are descendants of Galicians. Other groups such as the people of Slavonia or Latania certainly don't belong to the same Egalian continuity because the distance is too big while languages are quite close. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 18:28, 5 August 2019 (CEST)

The "oldest" Slavic country in OGF (dating from September, 2013) is Slavonia. If Andy's Ingerland is the origin of Ingerish-speaking peoples, then wouldn't applying the same logic require Slavonia to be the origin of Slavic peoples? I don't actually believe either of these should hold true, but the "first comers" principle is quite strong in OGF. And if Andy's precedence isn't accepted, then we're going to have inverisimilitudinous "multiple Slavic homelands" just as happened with Dutch homelands a few years back, which still hasn't been resolved as far as I can figure out.--Luciano (talk) 18:29, 5 August 2019 (CEST)

The biggest problem is that on OGF, countries appear where users want them to be. Admins are trying to categorize them and divide their regions into parts of different cultures. Still, the layout of different countries is such, that I makes deciding the history of some groups hard. In this case, you have pockets of such nations here and there, all accross Uletha. Slavonia in the far west, Latania in the far east, etc. While in the real-world, everything is connected because it is the real world. So most ethnic groups, like the Slevs, tend to use migration in the past as the only answer in explaining why is a country thousands of kilometers away from the rest. I agree with you that Latania doesn't belong to the Egalian part, and same for Slavonia in the Glynian part. But further discussion should fix this.
Now, Luciano, that is not how origins work. England is not the origin of English-speaking nations, but it certainly is the one who had spread the English language in those nations. Ingerland has the same case. It is the one who spread the Ingerish language accross the OGF globe. The origin of probably any people group on OGF is debatable, and only an agreement by most of the users on OGF will tell an answer. JoJoBa (talk) 18:42, 5 August 2019 (CEST)
@jojo that is my exact point: the whole relies on good attitude to collaboration. That is not what we see. Users like Andy notoriously refuse to collaborate and we just have to accept their first comer status.--Luciano (talk) 18:55, 5 August 2019 (CEST)
We don't: Slavonia as a Slavic homeland is merely provisional. The local place names, for example, are mostly copied from several real world Slavic countries, slapped together without much care for origin or context. I think it's absolutely reasonable to leave Slavonia out of the discussion as a country going against rules of realism. --Eklas (talk) 19:41, 5 August 2019 (CEST)
I understand you, Luciano, very well. And I agree with Eklas. OGF is a collaboration project, and if Andy doesn't want to collaborate, as Luciano said, we will have a big problem. And while you mention the first comer thing. OGF is not a very popular website. I don't want to be rude or anything, I absolutely love this thing. But it is not a website where ton of people join everyday, like Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and even Google+ is more popular. This is a website that you 'see on accident'. A website that you see after scrolling after other similar stuff, or a website which your friend recommended you because he thinks it is cool. So the first comer status to me is a pure joke, and I don't like it. Anyways, getting back on-topic. The GIF I made, as I already said in the 1st message here, is based on the info I gathered myself. I see most people, notably stjur, saying Suria is the origin of all or most Slevs. If that's not the case, I do not accept Slavonia to be the origin place. The nearest Slevic countries (Szlonsk and Ventria) are 1200km away. Now, this is slightly shorter than the distance between Moscow and Belgrade, for example, but those two territories are surrounded by other countries of different cultures. The rest of the Slevic countries are too far away, and Slavonia is too isolated from the rest. The area that stjur focuses on to be Slevic is even further. It would be much more realistic for the Slavonian people to migrate from Suria like the rest. JoJoBa (talk) 22:29, 5 August 2019 (CEST)
Actually, my main point is that this looks like a double-standard. We have accepted Ingerland as the origin of English-speaking peoples, and fought off numerous challenges to this status, despite multiple requests to change this, and despite less-than-adequate collaboration by Ingerland's owner, over many years, all based on the "first comer" status. Meanwhile, we are now declaring an exact opposite approach with respect to Slavonia and Slavic peoples. I suppose my frustration is that after defending Andy's claim on Ingerland during all these years, despite disagreeing with the merits of that claim, I now see others getting away with what I couldn't get away with. That's annoying and frustrating, and just points up the utter inconsistency and lack of genuine "rule of law" on OGF. Sigh.--Luciano (talk) 23:47, 5 August 2019 (CEST)
Maybe because Ingerland was not ideal but acceptable solution for Ingerish origin (or it is because the Ingerland capital isn't named after piece of parchment like Velin). Here we have different situation where nearly the whole Slavosphere lies in specific place in Uletha. It would be quite unfair for the owners of all these Slavic to on one hand enforce their presence in Egalia and on the other enforce the status of Slavonia as Slavic origin (so all these countries are supposed to be colonies or had to be established by migrants). Also the first-comer rule is getting less important as the older the website is, because first-comer rule is becoming shorter and shorter chain through time (the Slavonia issue is great example of that situation). --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 00:03, 6 August 2019 (CEST)
Indeed, the Ingerland issue is by my judgement not an ideal solution either. It currently feels like a strange status quo being out of community control. Depending on how much history and background around the mapping is desired, it is underiable to have so many secondary nations (former colonies etc.) without access to the primary mainland. On the other hand, we could just ignore the background and map anywhere in any language we like, but I don't see that option as desirable either. Also, to have such a 1:1 copy of the British empire is a bit uncreative. There might be other options, maybe the FSA playing a bigger role going further back into the past or whatever. I don't know how far the community or admins would like to hear creative ideas or initiatives. In any case, I see the current situation as a bit unstable. I wonder how long the status quo will endure. A big mess could await us, if we just ignore the issue. --Toadwart (talk) 00:38, 6 August 2019 (CEST)