User:Aces California/Bliki/2February2018

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<< 28 January

Introduction

Hello and welcome to February all, if your new to reading these, this is my Bliki. Here I will be commenting on my time in OpenGeoFiction, my current projects, showing off work, and very rarely, complain about life off of the computer. Welcome all from new readers to dedicated readers, and I hope you have a great February with me and with OGF!

Replies

Thank you all for your wishes of luck, but it's going to be a struggle with what I will describe in the article below. But we'll get there eventually! That's all that really has to be said, so on with the Bliki Article!

A Frustrating Bump

If you read my previous Bliki article, you would know that I have officially applied to claim UL160 in the north of Uletha, in the more European/British area of Uletha. Well, the Admins/Mods have gotten back to me, and there's some complications.

The issue that they have had with my application is that of Tierajas-Verdes, I haven't actually done THAT much mapping. I've been focusing on detailed mapping getting everything as detailed and realistic as possible. But they have required for one certain aspect.

I need to have mapped roughly 20% of Tierajas-Verdes, 1/5, around 58km x 58km

I've managed to map around 2-3% of Tierajas-Verdes in the past YEAR. And I really do not have anything to show for it. Which really puts it into perspective.

it's rules they have to apply to everybody so nobody gets special treatment which I can agree with, I wouldn't want to be given special treatment. But it goes against everything that I want to do, or don't want to do.

I would either need to make 20% of Tierajas-Verdes which I am adamant that I do not want, or physically have the motivation, to do. And this is Micro-mapping, which is good, but needing to map all roads of major settlements, which is bad.

The other option is to do a 58 x 58 km square in Commonia, which in itself has down-sides. New mappers potentially messing with it, having to create that 58 x 58 km from scratch, including conception, planning, and mapping. And I don't have the time or motivation to do that either.

So I'm stuck. I'm trying to work out something with the Admins that will still be within the rules, but it doesn't look good for me getting a new nation any time soon. I'm physically stuck with nowhere to go right now!

But yeah...I really don't know what to do now. i'm contemplating just ditching Tierajas-Verdes entirely again, because, even if it's a bit of an immoral move, if I ditch T-V, I'm open to claim another nation. At least to my interpretation. But I don't really want to do that either.

I feel like a debate should be needed on what is now needed to represent your mapping of a country. To allow those who work organically and in small details, to be able to say "hey, it may be Micromapping, but it's shown my dedication and skill in mapping".

But for now, I will leave it here, and follow up with other Bliki updates after about my journey with this.

<< 28 January

Comments

I'd very much like comments below about this issue. I'm feeling trapped and stuck with nowhere to go in OGF. I'd like to know if you think representation needs to be slightly changed to represent Micromapping; or if you know of a way for me to get to somewhere I want to be. Sign yourself off with 2 of these "-" and 4 of these "~". Thank you all!


I feel like this is part of a bigger problem, and it has partially been discussed before. I checked for myself and to get another country, I'd have to map a 832, 1142 or 1392 km square depending on the size, which means with my current speed I could apply first in 2022. Is OGF even still going to be a thing in 2022? Is the world still going to exist in 2022?
What bothers me perhaps even more is the unjust calculation. The table on OGF:Requesting more territory doesn't reflect on one important thing: How big is your current territory compared to the one you're requesting. OGF countries are ridiculously small. Also, if a new user can get a 100,000 km2 territory immediately without any conditions, it shouldn't be a problem for an owner of a 30,000 km2 territory to get the extra 70,000 too.
Lastly, there are many things about the distribution of countries in OGF that I don't understand. If you look at Uletha - in the west there's a couple large countries, in the center it's 50 shades of grey and then there's the parade of small and even smaller territories on the Axian peninsula, in the east and also in the northwest, in a subpolar climate. The other continents are an even bigger mess. I think it was Deltanz who brought this up some time ago, but I don't think anything changed since. Well good luck, I guess --Eklas (talk) 08:41, 2 February 2018 (CET)
The policies are unclear also for me but I can say what I know. There was a rumour that UL99 will become another big collaborative territory along with Suria and Mazan if only AR120 will become succesful - if it won't be probably policies will change. The problem of OGF is lack of superpower countries and it seems to be a solution for that. On the other hand lot of the Ulethan regions are predistinated to host some RW cultures, i. e. probably Axian peninsula is supposed to be Far East. Also I received a proposition to move to one of the bigger countries near Mazan with Demirhan Empire (one of them, which I am interested in is part of UL114) so I can guess it is planned to be a middle estern part of the world and so on... --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 13:42, 2 February 2018 (CET)

Wait wait wait UL160? This is a race then, because I've been trying to map 20% of Shilesia in good quality mapping (so I can claim UL160) for some time! My task is easier though, because my country is smaller ;) . --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 11:10, 2 February 2018 (CET)

You have it Trabant, I physically cannot map the size of 20% of T-V in T-V or Commonia. I do not rush work, that's how you get unrealistic projects. --Aces California (talk) 12:37, 2 February 2018 (CET)

@Eklas I think there are 'more rules' than you think behind the rules. That can't really happen, the admins have some logic and sense whether to allow or not. An idea is that you can split Tierajas-Verdes (PRTV) into two, abandon one large part away to some future mapper and make the other part officially to be the PRTV. So it is like downsizing the country by tearing one undrawn part away. However, how are you going to split it is another good question. Maybe move the cities to one point of the map? Not sure whether this will work.--Happy mapping and God bless, ZK (talk) 12:31, 2 February 2018 (CET)

ZK you need misunderstanding me, I'm not splitting Tierajas-Verdes in two and abandoning one half of it. I'm either going to keep T-V and abandon getting Ul160, or I'm going to abandon T-V to be able to get UL160. There's no RP here ZK, no People's Republic, no government, no politics. It's either I keep T-V, or I abandon T-V. I'm not moving any part of T-V if I abandon it for UL160. --Aces California (talk) 12:34, 2 February 2018 (CET)
God bless, what are you even trying to say, Zhenkang? :Ddd --Eklas (talk) 12:42, 2 February 2018 (CET)
I used PRTV because that was the official name 'People republic of T-V stated on the wiki page. Or is it because that is outdated? @Eklas. 'Happy mapping and may God bless you'. I think I need to change the signature a bit.--Happy mapping and may God bless you, ZK (talk) 13:12, 2 February 2018 (CET)
Ah my mistake then ZK xD Still, my issue is that I want all of T-V still, I may work on it in the future, however, requiring to map 1/5 of it is against what I'm getting a second nation for to begin with. Yeah T-V is still the People's Republic of Tierajas-Verdes :P --Aces California (talk) 16:01, 2 February 2018 (CET)

As a - generic - rule of thumb, I think the rules are pretty honest and pragmatical, but I agree with Eklas that there are some inconsistencies. In your case, you are blocked by the fact that you have mapped relatively little, but what you have done is superb. Can't you beat the system by mapping some large agricultural area's or a nature reserve or so ? Or claim the smaller UL162 (looks appropriate for your ideas to me) and only fill 10% as compromise ? Best of luck on your decision.

I wonder, by the way, how much this will affect the AR120 project. A lot of existing and experienced mappers who would want to join in what I perceive as a pretty interesting experiment maybe then would be blocked for the same reason. That would be a shame.

--Marcello (talk) 12:61, 2 February 2018 (CET)

Marcello I think the admins 'purposely' delay the opening of AR120 (they said they are opening shortly, but as of now unopened still) probably waiting for more mappers to map as much more as they can before they claim a part of AR120. This is like one of my thoughts of maybe why AR120 is unopened, besides the fact that they are busy.--Happy mapping and may God bless you, ZK (talk) 13:12, 2 February 2018 (CET)
The issue I am facing is that I could do large swaths of farmland, but they require detail and the examples they gave, is that I need to make settlements with road layouts. This can be done, but I can't rush a project! It's just against my nature to not be exactly right :P I've asked to claim smaller but that'll still need 10% of Tierajas-Verdes mapped. They say I mapped 2% in my entire year. So that's where I am stuck xD --Aces California (talk) 16:01, 2 February 2018 (CET)
Another solution: You can share the territory UL160 with someone else (like Trabantemnaksiezyc who is interested). Maybe this will help, but you may have to wait for someone else who is interested in cooperating with you on UL160. It may not work if you want to work on it alone though.--Happy mapping and may God bless you, ZK (talk) 13:12, 2 February 2018 (CET)
Mapping large areas of very low datailed mapping will not pass. The areas that are presented in OGF:Requesting more territory are mapped in details. If it could help I talked about getting a new territory (AR032a is getting a little bit small for me), the admins said that Demirhan standard is enough, although covering 5500 thousands of km2 (20% of T-V) requires 3-4 months of hard work.
I can agree that the territory administration is not very just especially when idea of a country is changing in the owners' mind but it has a purpose. In early days of OGF getting a territory was fairly easy and some users got a few territories. Effects of that policy were visible even when I discovered OGF year ago, even now we can see it if we know where we shoud seek. - I mean the bunch of big territories with one or three cities mapped or with poorly drawn road system. We must remember that area of OGF is limited and admins don't want a lot of lad frozen in the emptiness. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 13:42, 2 February 2018 (CET)
THIS THIS EXACTLY, Rustem you hit the nail on the head! it'll take me months or YEARS for me to even do 10% of Tierajas-Verdes, let alone 20%! --Aces California (talk) 16:01, 2 February 2018 (CET)

Regardless of my mixed opinion of the OGF territory rule, I do understand your frustration, Aces. I hope that your conversations with the admin behind the scenes works out to something you can thrive with. In the short term, your Commonia work is amazing, and I cannot commend you enough here. If you decide to abandon T-V, however, please don't think of it as an "immoral" decision. I don't think there is a moral question here. If you are moving past that type of mapping and that culture, then that's an artistic choice (so to speak). I don't think you should burden yourself with a moral dilemma there. — Alessa (talk) 14:45, 2 February 2018 (CET)

Don't have much to add, other than to agree with everyone that this is a shame, as we would all clearly be better off with another Aces-mapped country. There's not exactly a dearth of empty territory for new mappers to draw endless grids on, and Tierajas-Verdes is easily one of the most interesting countries on the world map to explore, even at the current level of coverage. Anyway, I'm sorry to hear this and happy to keep working with you on individual projects in T-V while you figure out what to do. B-) --LW (talk) 12:15, 2 February 2018 (EST)

Might it be a good idea if we hold a joint map-a-thlon to map Tierajas-Verdes into '20% decently mapped' under the label 'California über alles' ? Sorry, I just could't resist this one ;-) --Marcello (talk) 20:40, 2 February 2018 (CET)

Yess! I'd be totally down for that --Eklas (talk) 20:43, 2 February 2018 (CET)
I'm in, for sure. --LW (talk) 15:07, 2 February 2018 (EST)
I need something differ than my country so maybe I can try. --Rüstem Paşa Discussion 21:48, 2 February 2018 (CET)
Uuuuuuuuh....I love this idea? xD I'd say give me some time to think through my next step for certain, but then I can't throw away free help xD --Aces California (talk) 22:42, 2 February 2018 (CET)
Making T-V an 'unofficial' collaborative? Good one. However, I will still busy myself in Archanta. Hee hee.--Happy mapping and may God bless you, ZK (talk) 00:00, 3 February 2018 (CET)