Forum:Territory application/AR103 - Seneca and Forum:Territory application/AR060-11 - Kintinara: Difference between pages

Revision as of 15:09, 22 September 2023

Forums → Territory application → Territory application/AR060-11 - Kintinara

Please fill in the information below to make a territory request.

	Territory ID and proposed name
	The Territory ID (from OpenGeofiction:Territories, e.g. AR123a) and proposed name of the country

AR060-11^∈^⊾ - East Deodeca (Inspired by South Australia in the greater country of Australia.)

I understand there may be some concerns with this naming, so how about Ferland, named after the settlers for how fertile the land is.

	Physical geography
	An overview of climate, topography and landscape of the country. It is advised to also create a sketch, you can add a link to this (hosted on imgur or similar)

The latitude is similar to Mount Gambier, South Australia. Therefore, the climate will be lush mediterranean with mild winters with a high temp of 10-14°c and a low temp ranging from 4-6°c overnight. During summer, days frequently are over 30°c in the area. The trees will be eucalyptus trees and mallee terrain. The largest city will be similar to Adelaide. There will be no outback mapping unlike the real South Australia, given the fact that it isn't high enough latitude to be in the outback. In this way, most of the terrain will resemble agriculture south of the Goyder's Line, a line meant to demarcate where agriculture is no longer viable that was created in real South Australia.

The largest city is surrounded by small hills, the tallest being 692m above sea level.

	Human geography
	A brief description of the territory demographics, economic development, land occupation, infrastructure and mapping style

It's centric on one city with most of the population living there. 75% of the 1,200,000 people in this state will live in the biggest city, with other smaller towns serving as agriculture centers, as that is the main industry with a few mines and industrial parks scattered around rural areas. These will be linked by road to the biggest city, or state capital. In the state, there will only be one rail line which will come from interstate, keeping it realistic to railway infrastructure in Australia, with a few disused old lines that were replaced by road transport mapped out, some of them turning into cycling rail trails and some only being notable by the dirt track aligned with the old train line.

	History & culture
	A brief description of the intended culture and language

60,000 years ago: Ngaringa people arrive

1803: Land surveyed by Ingerish settlers

1806: Largest city founded

1810: Colony declared, it's for free settlers

1830: Copper mining boom about 115km east of the largest city, which forms a town that exists today

1850: Gold discovered in other state (TBD) of Deodeca, mass migration occurs and state tries to keep economy stable as people leave to strike it big.

1901: Largest city hits 100,000 population

1972: Population expected to boom, state government acquires land in order to build a planned city

1983: Projections not as expected, land is sold back with most of it becoming industrial park and the rest becomes (possibly an outdoor mental health retreat, prison or military base).

2010: Population does finally boom, and housing developments occur in a hills town

Today: town bottlenecked by an insufficient freeway, talks of a metro line extension, but overall a bustling (mostly) rural state with a stable economy.

Language is Ingerish (obviously to align with the rest of Deodeca). Our culture is similar to the rest of Deodeca, we do love drinking Harvey's Iced Coffee which is a local brand though and that is our state's patriotism. The state government has a tourism-oriented department as well which encourages people to go on camping trips and enjoy wineries.

	Past mapping
	To support your request provide links to areas of OGF mapping which showcase your mapping skill. Mapping relevant to the requested theme & geography is especially useful
	The {{coord}} template can optionally be used to link to the OGF map - it results in a nice formatted link. Or you can paste in a URL.

Well, I did participate in bad faith and create an Australia style country in the past, though this was poor on my part as I didn't own the territory I developed. I would like to apologise for this and take a more patient and respectful route to obtain a territory.

Whyalla type town: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=13/13.6738/-107.6820&layers=5

Canberra prototype: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=14/13.4136/-107.5828&layers=5

A bit of highway example: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/13.4561/-107.4289&layers=5

NOTE: This map has since been removed so to view it you need to use the 'OSM Carto (05 Testing)' mirror.

	Username & date
	Sign and date the application by typing four tildes like this: ~~~~

AustinBoath (talk) 10:46, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

	Discussion
	Discussion for clarification & decision

Hi there Austin,

I’m Arlo on behalf of the wider Deodeca community. We just had some points we’d like to make about your application:

They are called provinces and not states in Deodeca
We would love if you could make even a rudimentary map just to show the outline of what you’re planning
We have developed our own local history that you can coordinate with to help align -11 to neighbouring provinces histories
We’d like to coordinate with you on the geography of the area so you know what is already there and what you can add. We also don’t think that mallee” scrubs are appropriate for the area. Deodeca is very temperate and receives high rainfall

Thanks, Arlo (talk) 00:30, 19 September 2023 (UTC)Arlo

Hey Arlo,

A bit of background, I am a mapper originally from Adelaide, though now I live rurally in Tailem Bend which has given me an insight into rural mapping. So I was thinking, if not mallee scrub, at least farm plains similar to the area of tailem bend, minus the scrub. I've mapped out towns such as Coonalpyn & Callington on main OSM. Would gum trees be realistic for the region or would it be the taller pines of the borderlands in SA/VIC, let me know and I can map those.

I'd love to coordinate geography and have most natural features planned out as that is usually the biggest headache for me at the start of any project. The local history will also be interesting to integrate and I'm willing to work around that.

Here's what the territory terrain looks like in my vision, but you can advise me on any changes to the fauna and main land use:

https://www.realestate.com.au/news-image/w_1280,h_720/v1692240964/news-lifestyle-content-assets/wp-content/production/capi_954bd8b61a2f00259450545500535f40_df33d240b17f06a9066362c05fe4a59f.jpeg

I also understand what you mean about provinces, not states.

Sketch: https://ibb.co/j6rmcxk

AustinBoath (talk) 04:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply Austin. A fertile Riverlands climate is a better fit for the province we think and thank you for the regional information (I live in Adelaide as well). I would also say a climate such as the Flerieu peninsula but less hilly would also be a good area to reference.

Some important notes for your sketch map, we have a national motorway network (TDH) with a map you can find attached

Official layout of the Trans Deodecan Highway network.

. This works nicely with your road layout already. Another point is that there is also a High Speed Rail network as well and there is a route planned from Kingstown to Creswick, which would run through your province. As such, this should be considered for rail infrastructure along the main motorway.

If you'd like, you can join us on a Discord group where we can further discuss these points and also where you can chat with your neighbours to the north and east. Peralia's mapper has some riverland-esque plans for the south of his province, so you two would likely want to coordinate on that. Let me know

Arlo (talk) 07:30, 19 September 2023 (UTC)Arlo

Thanks! I am excited to map this part of Deodeca, and I will join the discord. Where can I find the link for that? Looking forward to making a province of my own! AustinBoath (talk) 07:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

You're welcome. Just to clarify though, the application still needs to be approved by admins. You can add me on discord and I'll add you to the group (username: arlohhhh) Arlo (talk) 08:46, 19 September 2023 (UTC)Arlo

Hi, for us to consider this we will require a more detailed sketch, making sure that natural features are included. This should also take into account community constraints, as mentioned by Arlo, and present in the mapping data (e.g. ridge lines). The current road-based sketch raises some concern that perhaps the size of the territory has been underestimated. It is ~270 km E-W, ~220 km N-S - that makes the identification of individual bakeries, pubs and industrial estates unexpected. Worth consulting the scale helper.

And yes, past behaviour will also inform a decision. /wangi (talk) 11:27, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi Wangi, I totally understand about past behaviour informing a decision, as Luciano has described it, it is less than exemplary. I am hoping I can build a proper reputation, have patience and move on from the past while admitting that it was wrong to simply edit in a territory I did not own. It is not surprising to have concerns about my ownership of this Deodecan territory.

As for your comment on the scale, I understand that the territory was roughly 250-300km across similar to the corner of South Australia that I am very familiar with. When I was envisioning the towns, I pictured that I was a traveller, and thought of the country towns that I know of. When I did the sketch, I dotted it with familiar places I have been to when travelling on the highway. However, I think this sketch doesn't include a lot. I think to do a good sketch I'll need a physical pencil and paper, but yes I understand the full scale. I'll respond in some time with a sketch on paper of the territory. AustinBoath (talk) 14:32, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

New sketch complete! Check it out when you can: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1153632576418873374/1153930346417627146/image.png?width=979&height=702 AustinBoath (talk) 05:59, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Please consider Help:Making realistic countries - this feels like you've worked the natural features in around the roads, rather than the other way around. And as I mentioned in the last reply - there are natural features, such as this ridge line which continues as the territory boundary, which need to be reflected too. Thanks/wangi (talk) 09:25, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I made the natural features with the help of some of the Deodeca team on discord, they can confirm this. The natural features are layed out so there is a mountain range around the basin of the Mullumbidgee. And yes, I’m more than happy to incorporate the ridge line into my mapping. Thank you for linking the ridge line in question. AustinBoath (talk) 14:11, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

After looking at the map, I am perplexed on why the border crossing to Clamash has a to be required by Deodeca mappers. There are two reasons. One is Clamash was once part of Deodeca, so it would be highly unusual for no border crossing to exist. Secondly, I have already mapped that CL 88 goes to the Deodeca border as well as two railways. I am open to discussion to remove one of railways, but would request the CL 88 border crossing to remain. Glauber (talk) 14:30, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

No need to remove rail lines or anything from your side - I will incorporate Clamash’s roads to continue into Deodeca, there will be checkpoints but a lot of old gravel roads / hiking trails could also be added to the cross-border region. That cross the border. I would likely snip them in half with turning circles and make the hiking trails have special permits required to hike on, or have a self checkin or surveillance system setup - we can work lore out later. Thank you for your insight, only helps improve my ideas for this future Deodecan territory AustinBoath (talk) 14:46, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

New Sketch that incorporates the ridge line: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1153632576418873374/1154254631401181234/image.png AustinBoath (talk) 03:17, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the updated sketch. Can you have another think about how the natural features impact the development of the territory please? Perhaps you need to fill in the nature blanks in the south of the territory first. What jumps out as incongruous are the four strong east-west highway corridors, seemingly paying little attention to the topology. Thanks/wangi (talk) 15:09, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 {{Territory application id and name}}
-AR103 - Senecan Republic (Seneca)
+{{relation|267001|AR060-11}} - '''East Deodeca''' (Inspired by ''South Australia'' in the greater country of ''Australia''.)
+I understand there may be some concerns with this naming, so how about '''Ferland,''' named after the settlers for how fertile the land is.
 {{territory application physical geography}}
-Seneca will have a semi-arid tropical climate, similar to that of Australia or South Africa. The centre of the country is characterised by hilly, mountainous terrain, akin to a 'mini version' of the Australian Great Dividing Range. These mountains have a little bit of a cooler climate due to being at a higher altitude than the rest of the country, and attract adventure seekers for hiking and rock climbing in the cooler months. The south coast features expansive plains and rolling hills and is a tourist hotspot. Summers on the southern coast of Seneca are warm and dry and have a somewhat Mediterranean climate (ranging from 25 to 30 degrees celsius), whilst winters are cool and wetter (5/8 to 18 degrees celsius). This Meditteranean-like climate makes it ideal for vineyards, producing excellent quality wines.
+The latitude is similar to [[wikipedia:Mount_Gambier|Mount Gambier, South Australia]]. Therefore, the climate will be lush mediterranean with mild winters with a high temp of 10-14°c and a low temp ranging from 4-6°c overnight. During summer, days frequently are over 30°c in the area. The trees will be eucalyptus trees and [[wikipedia:Mallee_(habit)|mallee terrain]]. The largest city will be similar to Adelaide. There will be no outback mapping unlike the real South Australia, given the fact that it isn't high enough latitude to be in the outback. In this way, most of the terrain will resemble agriculture south of the Goyder's Line, a line meant to demarcate where agriculture is no longer viable that was created in real South Australia.
+The largest city is surrounded by small hills, the tallest being 692m above sea level.
 {{territory application human geography}}
-Seneca's population mirrors its diverse landscapes. The nation is home to a variety of ethnicities, embracing its indigenous roots and waves of immigration over the course of time. Indigenous Senecans have a deep connection to the land and its traditions, and form approximately 1/12th of its population, which totals to 4,270,000. Many immigrants call Seneca home, and they have enriched the nation's cultural fabric. The nation is known for its multiculturalism, with various festivals and events honouring this.
+It's centric on one city with most of the population living there. 75% of the 1,200,000 people in this state will live in the biggest city, with other smaller towns serving as agriculture centers, as that is the main industry with a few mines and industrial parks scattered around rural areas. These will be linked by road to the biggest city, or state capital. In the state, there will only be one rail line which will come from interstate, keeping it realistic to railway infrastructure in Australia, with a few disused old lines that were replaced by road transport mapped out, some of them turning into cycling rail trails and some only being notable by the dirt track aligned with the old train line.
+{{territory application history and culture}}
+'''60,000 years ago:''' Ngaringa people arrive
+'''1803:''' Land surveyed by Ingerish settlers
+'''1806:''' Largest city founded
+'''1810:''' Colony declared, it's for free settlers
+'''1830:''' Copper mining boom about 115km east of the largest city, which forms a town that exists today
+'''1850:''' Gold discovered in other state (TBD) of Deodeca, mass migration occurs and state tries to keep economy stable as people leave to strike it big.
-Seneca's economy thrives on an array of industries resembling South Africa's mineral resources and agriculture, as well as Australia's resource-based economy. Mining, although controversial to the Senecan public, plays a pivotal role. Seneca is a major exporter of minerals and rare earth metals. The agriculture and wine industries thrive in the fertile coastal regions. These produce a range of crops from wheat, to corn, to citrus fruits. Tourism has also surged in the last decade, with thanks to Seneca's natural beauty, attracting visitors around the world.
+'''1901:''' Largest city hits 100,000 population
-The land occupation of Seneca is a reflection of its topography. Majority of the population lives on the coastline, with cities such as Dudley, Stockland and Port Velt serving as economic hubs. These regions are characterised by urban sprawl, agricultural estates and other industries. In contrast the northland regions, past the 'mini Great Dividing Range', are sparsely populated due to a lack of infrastructure. The northlands are also home to indigenous communities, where small picturesque villages dot the landscape. Large cattle ranches are prevalent in the grasslands.
+'''1972:''' Population expected to boom, state government acquires land in order to build a planned city
-Seneca's infrastructure combines elements of Australia's road network and South Africa's modern infrastructure developments. A small network of motorways connects major hubs, and a well maintained highway system connects the regions. Coastal cities boast modern ports, facilitating trade and commerce. Mining towns have advanced extraction facilities and many transport links for exporting their resources. The nation, whilst still being connected to their mining based economy, has invested in renewable energy resources, harnessing solar, nuclear and wind power to suit their growing energy demands.
+'''1983:''' Projections not as expected, land is sold back with most of it becoming industrial park and the rest becomes (possibly an outdoor mental health retreat, prison or military base).
-The mapping style I will use for the country is similar to that seen in Australian and South African cities and suburbs, since that is what I am familiar with.
+'''2010:''' Population ''does'' finally boom, and housing developments occur in a hills town
-{{territory application history and culture}}
+'''Today:''' town bottlenecked by an insufficient freeway, talks of a metro line extension, but overall a bustling (mostly) rural state with a stable economy.
-The culture and language of Seneca are as diverse and rich as its landscapes and demographics. The nation's culture is a combination of English traditions to indigenous traditions, as well as immigrant influences. The primary language used in the territory will be English, with indigenous and immigrant influences (Afrikaans) shown in its mapping.
+Language is Ingerish (obviously to align with the rest of Deodeca). Our culture is similar to the rest of Deodeca, we do love drinking Harvey's Iced Coffee which is a local brand though and that is our state's patriotism. The state government has a tourism-oriented department as well which encourages people to go on camping trips and enjoy wineries.
 {{territory application past mapping}}
-https://opengeofiction.net/#map=13/-26.5868/145.4102&layers=B
+Well, I did participate in bad faith and create an Australia style country in the past, though this was poor on my part as I didn't own the territory I developed. I would like to apologise for this and take a more patient and respectful route to obtain a territory.
+Whyalla type town: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=13/13.6738/-107.6820&layers=5
+Canberra prototype: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=14/13.4136/-107.5828&layers=5
-This would be a typical Senecan regional city on the coast with urban sprawl. This is obviously just a start, and improvements will be made as I continue with my mapping, hopefully with the acquisition of this territory.
+A bit of highway example: https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/13.4561/-107.4289&layers=5
-{{territory application username and date}}
+'''NOTE: This map has since been removed so to view it you need to use the 'OSM Carto (05 Testing)' mirror.'''{{territory application username and date}}
-[[User:Strayamate|Strayamate]] ([[User talk:Strayamate|talk]]) 06:21, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
+[[User:AustinBoath|AustinBoath]] ([[User talk:AustinBoath|talk]]) 10:46, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
+== Discussion ==
 {{territory application discussion}}
-*
+Hi there Austin,
+I’m Arlo on behalf of the wider Deodeca community. We just had some points we’d like to make about your application:
+* They are called provinces and not states in Deodeca
+* We would love if you could make even a rudimentary map just to show the outline of what you’re planning
+* We have developed our own local history that you can coordinate with to help align -11 to neighbouring provinces histories
+* We’d like to coordinate with you on the geography of the area so you know what is already there and what you can add. We also don’t think that mallee” scrubs are appropriate for the area. Deodeca is very temperate and receives high rainfall
+Thanks, [[User:Arlo|Arlo]] ([[User talk:Arlo|talk]]) 00:30, 19 September 2023 (UTC)Arlo
+::Hey Arlo,
+::A bit of background, I am a mapper originally from Adelaide, though now I live rurally in Tailem Bend which has given me an insight into rural mapping. So I was thinking, if not mallee scrub, at least farm plains similar to the area of tailem bend, minus the scrub. I've mapped out towns such as Coonalpyn & Callington on main OSM. Would gum trees be realistic for the region or would it be the taller pines of the borderlands in SA/VIC, let me know and I can map those.
+::I'd love to coordinate geography and have most natural features planned out as that is usually the biggest headache for me at the start of any project. The local history will also be interesting to integrate and I'm willing to work around that.
+::Here's what the territory terrain looks like in my vision, but you can advise me on any changes to the fauna and main land use:
+::[https://www.realestate.com.au/news-image/w_1280,h_720/v1692240964/news-lifestyle-content-assets/wp-content/production/capi_954bd8b61a2f00259450545500535f40_df33d240b17f06a9066362c05fe4a59f.jpeg?_i=AA https://www.realestate.com.au/news-image/w_1280,h_720/v1692240964/news-lifestyle-content-assets/wp-content/production/capi_954bd8b61a2f00259450545500535f40_df33d240b17f06a9066362c05fe4a59f.jpeg]
+::I also understand what you mean about provinces, not states.
+::'''Sketch''': https://ibb.co/j6rmcxk
+::[[User:AustinBoath|AustinBoath]] ([[User talk:AustinBoath|talk]]) 04:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
+:::Thanks for the reply Austin. A fertile Riverlands climate is a better fit for the province we think and thank you for the regional information (I live in Adelaide as well). I would also say a climate such as the Flerieu peninsula but less hilly would also be a good area to reference.
+:::Some important notes for your sketch map, we have a national motorway network (TDH) with a map you can find attached [[File:TDHprop.svg|350px|thumb|left|Official layout of the Trans Deodecan Highway network. ]]. This works nicely with your road layout already. Another point is that there is also a High Speed Rail network as well and there is a route planned from Kingstown to Creswick, which would run through your province. As such, this should be considered for rail infrastructure along the main motorway.
+:::If you'd like, you can join us on a Discord group where we can further discuss these points and also where you can chat with your neighbours to the north and east. Peralia's mapper has some riverland-esque plans for the south of his province, so you two would likely want to coordinate on that. Let me know
+::: [[User:Arlo|Arlo]] ([[User talk:Arlo|talk]]) 07:30, 19 September 2023 (UTC)Arlo
+::::Thanks! I am excited to map this part of Deodeca, and I will join the discord. Where can I find the link for that? Looking forward to making a province of my own! [[User:AustinBoath|AustinBoath]] ([[User talk:AustinBoath|talk]]) 07:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
+::::: You're welcome. Just to clarify though, the application still needs to be approved by admins. You can add me on discord and I'll add you to the group (username: arlohhhh) [[User:Arlo|Arlo]] ([[User talk:Arlo|talk]]) 08:46, 19 September 2023 (UTC)Arlo
+: Hi, for us to consider this we will require a more detailed sketch, making sure that natural features are included. This should also take into account community constraints, as mentioned by Arlo, and present in the mapping data (e.g. ridge lines). The current road-based sketch raises some concern that perhaps the size of the territory has been underestimated. It is ~270 km E-W, ~220 km N-S - that makes the identification of individual bakeries, pubs and industrial estates unexpected. Worth consulting the [https://wiki.opengeofiction.net/util/map_scale.html?map=C/8.11478746245857/-38.37568/137.35910&map2=OSM/x/-37.36694/143.15336&pxpt=0.2767&scale=1600000 scale helper].
+: And yes, past behaviour will also inform a decision. /[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 11:27, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
+Hi Wangi, I totally understand about past behaviour informing a decision, as Luciano has described it, it is less than exemplary. I am hoping I can build a proper reputation, have patience and move on from the past while admitting that it was wrong to simply edit in a territory I did not own. It is not surprising to have concerns about my ownership of this Deodecan territory.
+As for your comment on the scale, I understand that the territory was roughly 250-300km across similar to the corner of South Australia that I am very familiar with. When I was envisioning the towns, I pictured that I was a traveller, and thought of the country towns that I know of. When I did the sketch, I dotted it with familiar places I have been to when travelling on the highway. However, I think this sketch doesn't include a lot. I think to do a good sketch I'll need a physical pencil and paper, but yes I understand the full scale. I'll respond in some time with a sketch on paper of the territory. [[User:AustinBoath|AustinBoath]] ([[User talk:AustinBoath|talk]]) 14:32, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
+New sketch complete! Check it out when you can: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1153632576418873374/1153930346417627146/image.png?width=979&height=702 [[User:AustinBoath|AustinBoath]] ([[User talk:AustinBoath|talk]]) 05:59, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
+: Please consider [[Help:Making realistic countries]] - this feels like you've worked the natural features in around the roads, rather than the other way around. And as I mentioned in the last reply - there are natural features, such as {{way|26468810|this ridge line}} which continues as the territory boundary, which need to be reflected too. Thanks/[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 09:25, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
+: Hi, I made the natural features with the help of some of the Deodeca team on discord, they can confirm this. The natural features are layed out so there is a mountain range around the basin of the Mullumbidgee. And yes, I’m more than happy to incorporate the ridge line into my mapping. Thank you for linking the ridge line in question. [[User:AustinBoath|AustinBoath]] ([[User talk:AustinBoath|talk]]) 14:11, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
+::After looking at the map, I am perplexed on why the border crossing to Clamash has a to be required by Deodeca mappers. There are two reasons. One is Clamash was once part of Deodeca, so it would be highly unusual for no border crossing to exist. Secondly, I have already mapped that CL 88 goes to the Deodeca border as well as two railways. I am open to discussion to remove one of railways, but would request the CL 88 border crossing to remain. [[User:Glauber|Glauber]] ([[User talk:Glauber|talk]]) 14:30, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
+:::No need to remove rail lines or anything from your side - I will incorporate Clamash’s roads to continue into Deodeca, there will be checkpoints but a lot of old gravel roads / hiking trails could also be added to the cross-border region. That cross the border. I would likely snip them in half with turning circles and make the hiking trails have special permits required to hike on, or have a self checkin or surveillance system setup - we can work lore out later. Thank you for your insight, only helps improve my ideas for this future Deodecan territory [[User:AustinBoath|AustinBoath]] ([[User talk:AustinBoath|talk]]) 14:46, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
+::New Sketch that incorporates the ridge line: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1153632576418873374/1154254631401181234/image.png [[User:AustinBoath|AustinBoath]] ([[User talk:AustinBoath|talk]]) 03:17, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
+: Thanks for the updated sketch. Can you have another think about how the natural features impact the development of the territory please? Perhaps you need to fill in the nature blanks in the south of the territory first. What jumps out as incongruous are the four strong east-west highway corridors, seemingly paying little attention to the topology. Thanks/[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 15:09, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
-<!-- replace this with {{territory application approved|summary of decision and signature|optionally useful information for the user}} or {{territory application closed|summary of decision and signature|optionally useful information for the user}} on closing -->
+<!-- replace this with {{territory application approved|summary of decision and signature|optionally useful information for the user}} or {{territory application closed|summary of decision and signature|optionally useful information for the user}} on closing -->{{territory application in progress}}
-{{territory application in progress}}