View source for Forum:Valonne/Capitale nationale - National capital

<div class="forumheader" style="margin: 1; background-color: #eeeeee; text-align: left; padding: 5px;">'''[[Forum:Index|Forums]] &rarr; [[Forum:Valonne|Valonne]] &rarr; {{PAGENAME}}'''</div>[[Category:Valonne forum posts]]

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| style="background:#cef2ef; border:1px solid #3ae8d7; padding:1em; margin:auto;"| FR - Ceci est la page forum du projet collaboratif Valonne. Pour la documentation officielle du projet, veuillez visiter '''[[Collab:Valonne|la page du projet]]'''.<br>EN - This is the forum page for the Valonne collaborative project. For the project's official documentation please visit '''[[Collab:Valonne|Collab page]]'''.
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| style="background:#f7ffe8; border:1px solid #a1fc03; padding:1em; margin:auto;"| FR - La ville et le lac concernés dans ce billet sont : {{node|359141544|capitale sans nom}} et {{relation|432412|lac sans nom}}.<br>EN - The concerned city and lake in this post are: {{node|359141544|unnamed capital city}} and {{relation|432412|unnamed lake}}.
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{| class="wikitable" width="100%" style="text-align:left;"
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| width="50%" valign="top" |[[File:Flag_of_France.svg|28px]] La capitale de Valonne est la plus grande et la plus importante ville du pays. On peut dire sans risque de se tromper qu'il s'agit d'une plaque tournante mondiale pour une pléthore de choses. La ville doit faire l'objet d'une planification minutieuse avant que la cartographie détaillée ne puisse commencer. Cela comprend la disposition de la ville par rapport à sa position géographique. Les différentes avenues et rues principales qui traverseront la ville, les gares, les parcs importants, les bureaux gouvernementaux, les sites notables, les monuments, etc.

De même, ce message du forum servira à choisir un nom pour le lac où se trouve la capitale. Il peut, mais ne doit pas nécessairement, partager le nom de la ville.
| width="50%" valign="top" |[[File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg|28px]] The capital city of Valonne is the largest and most important city in the country. It is safe to say it is a global hub for a plethora of things. The city needs to be planned thoroughly before detailed mapping can commence. That includes the layout of the city relative to its geographic position. The various avenues and main streets that will crisscross the city, the railway stations, important parks, government offices, notable sites, monuments, etc.

Likewise, this forum post will be used to select a name for the lake where the capital city is located. It can, but does not have to share the name of the city.
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== Propositions de noms / ''Name proposals'' ==
{| width="100%" style="text-align:left;" 
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! width="50%" valign="top" |[[File:Flag_of_France.svg|28px]]
N'hésitez pas à discuter du développement de la ville ci-dessous. Les plans visuels sont acceptés.
! width="50%" valign="top" |[[File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg|28px]]
Feel free to discuss the development of the city below. Visual plans are also welcome.
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| width="50%" valign="top" |Veuillez ajouter vos suggestions à la fin du tableau, ajouter une étymologie (qu'elle soit officielle ou qu'elle vous soit venue à l'esprit par hasard), et assurez-vous de signer votre nom.
| width="50%" valign="top" |Please add your suggestions to the end of the table, add an etymology (whether official, or if it randomly came up on your mind), and make sure to sign your name.
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| style="background:#ffdad1; border:1px solid #eb5834; padding:1em; margin:auto;"| FR - '''LE VOTE EST TERMINÉ''' - Les gagnants sont:
*'''Nemans''' - pour le nom de la capitale, soumis par l'utilisateur {{user|Aiki}}
*'''Lac de Glois''' -  pour le nom du lac, soumis par l'utilisateur {{user|Aiki}}.

Les entrées restantes seront réutilisées dans tout le pays.<br>Les résultats du vote sont listés ci-dessous - merci d'avoir voté !<br><br>EN - '''THE VOTING HAS FINISHED''' - The winning entries are:
*'''Nemans''' - for the name of the capital city, submitted by user {{user|Aiki}},
*'''Lac de Glois''' - for the name of the lake, submitted by user {{user|Aiki}}.

The remaining entries will be reused throughout the country.<br>Voting results are listed below - thank you for voting!
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{|class='wikitable unsortable'|
! Nom de la ville / ''City name''
! Nom anglais / ''English name''
! Etymologie / ''Etymology''
! Auteur / ''Author''
|-
| '''Bourderoi'''
| '''Bourderoy'''
| Divers. Can be "city of Bourdain (a monarch)," or "the king's city," for example.
| [https://opengeofiction.net/user/varnel_maiser varnel_maiser]
|-
| '''Meiry'''
| '''Meire'''
| From Meyer (Mayor; Ruler) - Meierii -> Meieris -> Meyeri -> Meiry
| [[Davieerr]]
|-
| '''Sacerrè'''
| '''Saquerre'''
| From the river goddess Sequana - Sequanaterre -> Sequanterre -> Sequanerre -> Saquerre -> Sacerrè
| [[Davieerr]]
|-
|'''Blecair'''
|'''Bleclair'''
|Briíglerecia - Hilly Sea - Brikalerecia -> Bricalerecium Lacusioum -> Bricaliria -> Bricalia -> Brecalér -> Breclair
|[[Davieerr]]
|-
|'''Taulené'''
|'''Taulen'''
|Taulii - Obscure Tribe - Taulinium - Taulini -> Tauline -> Taulené
|[[Davieerr]]
|-
|'''Baseuil'''
|'''Baseuil'''
|From an old people called the Basilii. Basilium >> Baseuil
|[[User:Sweetykid|Sweetykid]] ([[User talk:Sweetykid|talk]]) 23:39, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
|-
|'''Tourneval'''
|'''Tourneval'''
|From Tourné (a knight) and -val (= valley)
|[[User:Sweetykid|Sweetykid]] ([[User talk:Sweetykid|talk]]) 23:39, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
|-
|'''Valcourt'''
|'''Valcourt'''
|From Val (= valley) and -court (= domain, area)
|[[User:Sweetykid|Sweetykid]] ([[User talk:Sweetykid|talk]]) 23:39, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
|-style="background:#e3ffbd
|'''Nemans'''
|'''Nemans'''
|From ''Nemetomagos'' - plain/market of the sanctuary/holy grove in Gaulish - following the phonological changes usually displayed in Langues d'oïl area. ''Nemeton'' became ''ne'' in Nemours or ''nan'' in Nanterre, while ''Magos'' morphed into ''ɑ̃'' (e.g. Caen, Rouen, Argentan) or ''ɔ̃'' (e.g. Charenton). Neighbouring languages may have kept some of the original phonemes. Plevian, could have Nemego (with a stress on the first e). The demonym could be ''némansois/némansoise''.
| [[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 16:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
|-
| '''Anthrace'''
| '''Anthrace'''
| From the mineral called anthracite that could be used and exploit there as coal. People could be called the Anthracians (Anthraciens, FR) and the region l'Anthracie / Anthracy
| [https://opengeofiction.net/user/newflanders Newflanders]
|-
| '''Andarsailles'''
| '''Andarsailles'''
| This proposal could go with the name of the lake if this one was called "Lake Andarion". That could sound like Versailles. People, there, could be called the Andarsaillais and the region l'Andarie / Andary.
| [https://opengeofiction.net/user/newflanders Newflanders]
|-
| '''Maurance'''
| '''Maurance'''
| This name could come from the name Maurice that could bear a king or a notable person. People could be called Mauranciens or Maurançais. And the region la Maurancie / Maurancy.
| [https://opengeofiction.net/user/newflanders Newflanders]
|}

{|class='wikitable unsortable'|
! Nom du lac / ''Lake name''
! Etymologie / ''Etymology''
! Auteur / ''Author''
|-
|'''Lac Celossé'''
|(Callus Sea) Callustrum Mare -> Kalostromeer -> Lac Celostom -> Lac Celosstumé -> Lac Celossum -> Lac Celossé/Celßemeer
| [[Davieerr]]
|-
| '''Lac Carustell'''
| (Far Blue Sea) Caeruleustele Mare -> Carulstelemeer -> Lac Carustelé -> Lac Carrustell
| [[Davieerr]]
|-
| '''Lac Andarion'''
| This proposal could go with the name of the capital or a town on the shore of the lake if this one was called "Andarsailles".
| [https://opengeofiction.net/user/newflanders Newflanders]
|-
| '''Lac d’Horance'''
| No etymology to give. Could be the name of a town on the shore of the lake or a river.
| [https://opengeofiction.net/user/newflanders Newflanders]
|-
| '''Lac de Late''' or '''Lac lésien'''
| From Gaulish ''late'' meaning marsh if the shores or some sections were marshy. Lésien is a calque on ''arlésien'' (inhabitant of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arles#Name Arles]), adjective deriving from Latin ''arelatensis''. In Ingrean, this would be rendered as Lake Late (as in being late) or Lesian Lake.
| [[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 19:29, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
|-style="background:#e3ffbd
| '''Lac de Glois'''
| From Gaulish ''glastos/gleuos'' meaning blue-green or shiny. For further information, please refer to the [[Forum:Valonne/Capitale_nationale_-_National_capital#Reflection_on_toponyms'_etymology|discussion section]] of this page.
| [[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 19:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
|}

<span style="color:red">'''Vote (Capitale)''' / ''Voting (Capital city)'':</span>
*'''Bourderoi'''
#[[User:Varnel maiser|Thanks, Zekiel]] ([[User talk:Varnel maiser|talk]]) 17:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Ante44|Ante44]] ([[User talk:Ante44|talk]]) 11:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Sergjack|Sergjack]] ([[User talk:Sergjack|talk]]) 15:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Paul Pfh|Paul Pfh]] ([[User talk:Paul Pfh|talk]]) 21:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Meiry'''
#[[User:Bixelkoven|Bixelkoven]] ([[User talk:Bixelkoven|talk]]) (West Uletha Admin) 12:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Davieerr|Davieerr]] ([[User talk:Davieerr|talk]]) 14:08, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Sacerrè'''
#[[User:ParAvion|ParAvion]] ([[User talk:ParAvion|talk]]) 20:29, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Blecair'''
#[[User:ParAvion|ParAvion]] ([[User talk:ParAvion|talk]]) 20:29, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Taulené'''

*'''Baseuil'''
#[[User:Chazeltine|Chazeltine]] ([[User talk:Chazeltine|talk]]) 13:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
# &mdash; [[User:Alessa|Alessa]] <sub>([[User talk:Alessa|talk]])</sub> 12:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Tourneval'''
#[[User:Brunanter|Brunanter]] ([[User talk:Brunanter|talk]]) 23:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Valcourt'''
#[[User:Brunanter|Brunanter]] ([[User talk:Brunanter|talk]]) 23:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Themapper53|Themapper53]] ([[User talk:Themapper53|talk]]) 07:08, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Sergjack|Sergjack]] ([[User talk:Sergjack|talk]]) 15:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Leowezy|Leowezy]] ([[User talk:Leowezy|talk]]) 16:41, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Sweetykid|Sweetykid]] ([[User talk:Sweetykid|talk]]) 13:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Nemans'''
#[[User:Bixelkoven|Bixelkoven]] ([[User talk:Bixelkoven|talk]]) (West Uletha Admin) 12:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Izaland Terramorphing Committee|Izaland Terramorphing Committee]] ([[User talk:Izaland Terramorphing Committee|talk]]) 00:42, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Stjur|Stjur]] ([[User talk:Stjur|talk]]) 04:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Ruadh|Ruadh]] ([[User talk:Ruadh|talk]]) 06:56, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Themapper53|Themapper53]] ([[User talk:Themapper53|talk]]) 07:08, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Ante44|Ante44]] ([[User talk:Ante44|talk]]) 11:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 19:22, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 11:53, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
# &mdash; [[User:Alessa|Alessa]] <sub>([[User talk:Alessa|talk]])</sub> 12:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
# [[User:Sweetykid|Sweetykid]] ([[User talk:Sweetykid|talk]]) 13:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
# [[User:Davieerr|Davieerr]] ([[User talk:Davieerr|talk]]) 14:08, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
# [[User:Paul Pfh|Paul Pfh]] ([[User talk:Paul Pfh|talk]]) 21:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Anthrace'''
#[[User:Varnel maiser|Thanks, Zekiel]] ([[User talk:Varnel maiser|talk]]) 17:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Stjur|Stjur]] ([[User talk:Stjur|talk]]) 04:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Andarsailles'''
#[[User:Chazeltine|Chazeltine]] ([[User talk:Chazeltine|talk]]) 13:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Maurance'''

------------------
<span style="color:blue">'''Vote (Lac)''' / ''Voting (Lake)'':</span>
*'''Nom équivalent à celui de la ville''' / ''Name equivalent to that of the city''
#[[User:Varnel maiser|Thanks, Zekiel]] ([[User talk:Varnel maiser|talk]]) 17:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)\
#[[User:Brunanter|Brunanter]] ([[User talk:Brunanter|talk]]) 23:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Stjur|Stjur]] ([[User talk:Stjur|talk]]) 04:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Ante44|Ante44]] ([[User talk:Ante44|talk]]) 11:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Sergjack|Sergjack]] ([[User talk:Sergjack|talk]]) 15:08, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Paul Pfh|Paul Pfh]] ([[User talk:Paul Pfh|talk]]) 21:35, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Lac Celossé'''
#[[User:Geoc3ladus|Geoc3ladus]] ([[User talk:Geoc3ladus|talk]]) 15:40, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:ParAvion|ParAvion]] ([[User talk:ParAvion|talk]]) 20:29, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Lac Carustell'''
#[[User:Sweetykid|Sweetykid]] ([[User talk:Sweetykid|talk]]) 17:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Davieerr|Davieerr]] ([[User talk:Davieerr|talk]]) 14:08, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:ParAvion|ParAvion]] ([[User talk:ParAvion|talk]]) 20:29, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Lac Andarion'''
#[[User:Stjur|Stjur]] ([[User talk:Stjur|talk]]) 04:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Lac d’Horance'''
#[[User:Bixelkoven|Bixelkoven]] ([[User talk:Bixelkoven|talk]]) (West Uletha Admin) 12:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Chazeltine|Chazeltine]] ([[User talk:Chazeltine|talk]]) 13:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Izaland Terramorphing Committee|Izaland Terramorphing Committee]] ([[User talk:Izaland Terramorphing Committee|talk]]) 00:42, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Varnel maiser|Thanks, Zekiel]] ([[User talk:Varnel maiser|talk]]) 17:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Themapper53|Themapper53]] ([[User talk:Themapper53|talk]]) 07:08, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
*'''Lac de Late or Lac lésien'''

*'''Lac de Glois'''
#[[User:Bixelkoven|Bixelkoven]] ([[User talk:Bixelkoven|talk]]) (West Uletha Admin) 12:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Chazeltine|Chazeltine]] ([[User talk:Chazeltine|talk]]) 13:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Geoc3ladus|Geoc3ladus]] ([[User talk:Geoc3ladus|talk]]) 15:40, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Sweetykid|Sweetykid]] ([[User talk:Sweetykid|talk]]) 17:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Ruadh|Ruadh]] ([[User talk:Ruadh|talk]]) 06:56, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Ante44|Ante44]] ([[User talk:Ante44|talk]]) 11:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Sergjack|Sergjack]] ([[User talk:Sergjack|talk]]) 15:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Leowezy|Leowezy]] ([[User talk:Leowezy|talk]]) 16:41, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 19:22, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 11:53, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
#[[User:Davieerr|Davieerr]] ([[User talk:Davieerr|talk]]) 14:08, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

== Discussion / ''Discussion'' ==

{| width="100%" style="text-align:left;" 
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! width="50%" valign="top" |[[File:Flag_of_France.svg|28px]]
! width="50%" valign="top" |[[File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg|28px]]
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| width="50%" valign="top" |Utilisez l'espace ci-dessous pour discuter du nom.
| width="50%" valign="top" |Use the space below to discuss the name(s).
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=== [[File:Flag_of_France.svg|28px]] French ===
==== Réflexions sur l'étymologie des toponymes ====
Bien que les langues gauloises aient laissé peu de traces dans le français moderne, une large part des toponymes français sont pourtant d'origine celtique ou gallo-romaine (avec une forte évolution phonologique). Certains sont directement dérivés du nom antiques, d'autres ont été remplacés par le nom de la peuplade gauloise vivant aux environs (e.g. Parisii -> Paris, Namnètes -> Nantes). A part les zones frontalières, je suppose que le projet collaboratif devrait respecter cet élément afin d'inventer des noms de lieux cohérents. Cela n'empêche en aucun cas l'utilisation de noms descriptifs français (e.g. Pont-sur-''nom de rivière'') ou de noms de saints. --[[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 16:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

=== [[File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg|28px]] English ===
==== Reflection on toponyms' etymology ====
Despite the fact that Gaulish languages left little to Modern French, a large part of current toponyms have in fact a Celtic or Gallo-Roman origin (with a heavy phonological evolution). Some have directly evolved from the ancient name, others have been replaced by the name of the Gallic tribe living in the area (e.g. Parisii -> Paris, Namnetes -> Nantes). Apart from border regions, I gather that the collaboration project should somehow use this real-world element as to generate consistent toponyms. This does not prevent from using descriptive names in French (e.g. Pont-sur-''river name'') or saints' names. --[[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 16:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
: In this vein perhaps something connected to ''[[wiktionary:glas|glas]]'', which in Celtic languages is variously the colour blue, green or grey. Specifically blue in Breton. Etymology could be connected to the lake. This would also allow for a future false etymology tied to the French meaning - which could lend to symbology. /[[User:Wangi|wangi]] ([[User talk:Wangi|talk]]) 15:07, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
:: Good pick for ''generating'' hydronyms. I had a quick look at wiktionary and it seems the cognates in Gaulish (from the extinct continental Celtic branch) were glastos/glasta/glaston (with variations: glasson, glađđon) for the blue-green meaning, or gleuos/gleua/gleuon for the “shiny” one. I guess we can have place names starting with Glât-, Glass-, Gloi- (e.g. le Lac de Glois). --[[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 08:32, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

==== River's name ====
I've noticed the river flowing throw the city is still call Pretagne, a vocal cord vibration away from Bretagne. If the river flow is swift, I would suggest something on the Celtic root ''Isara'' as rivers Isère, Yser, Oise or Isar. Maybe something like ''Ise'' ou ''Yse'' (both pronounce like ease) in modern Franquese with an adjective ''ysérian/ysériane'' keeping the long-lost "r".--[[User:Aiki|Aiki]] ([[User talk:Aiki|talk]]) 19:41, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:Yeah the river name was inherited from the entire region's name, however it is possible to rename it of course. I have to admit that I really like the name you've suggested, I am tempted to rename the river immediately, haha. ⸺ [[User:Bixelkoven|Bixelkoven]] ([[User talk:Bixelkoven|talk]]) (West Uletha Admin) 12:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)