Forum:Ingerland/Ingerland coat of arms

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We have a flag, but being a heraldry nerd I'm keen for Ingerland to have a coat of arms as well. I have a proposal below and would welcome any feedback, suggestions, or alternative proposals. -- Pawl (talk) 16:55, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Pawl's proposal

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  Full royal arms

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  Some other versions, & the royal standard

I assume that if it is still a monarchy (and possibly if it isn't) Ingerland should have a coat of arms in the English/West European heraldic tradition. The UK arms quarter those of England, Scotland, and Ireland, but since Ingerland is supposed to be analogous to England only there's no need for quarterings, so I've gone for a single undivided shield.

The shield contains a silver lion (silver is depicted as white in heraldry) on a red field strewn with golden roses (gold is usually depicted as yellow in heraldry). The lion is collared with a royal coronet. I envisage that these arms date back to the early days of heraldry (c.12th century).

The shield is encircled with the collar of Ingerland's senior order of chivalry (The Order of ???), from which hangs the order's badge. The badge contains a red cross patée, as in the flag. On either side are the supporters - two more silver lions.

Above the shield sits a royal helm with gold and ermine mantling, and on the helm is the crest : on the royal crown a silver lion walking ("passant") and holding a golden rose.

I've taken the motto below from the coat of arms of "old Ingerland" - Quis nos separabit - "Who shall separate us". I don't know what its significance is but we can come up with something (or change the motto).

The silver lion

The lion is extremely common in heraldry, used, among many many other places, in the coats of arms of all seven present-day European kingdoms. It dates from the early days of heraldry, and no doubt was intended to signify power, strength and status (the king of beasts).

The arms of Kalm with gold roses at the bottom

The rose

The use of a rose is a nod to the English rose but in a different colour. Having decided to use it I then discovered that a yellow/gold rose also appears below the shield in the coat of arms of Kalm. This could make sense, if the yellow rose is an ancient Kalmish/Gaermanic symbol which they brought with them when they conquered Ingerland. In the real world, there are examples of two countries sharing the same national flower, including two neighbouring countries : Austria and Switzerland both use the edelweiss.

The crown

The British heraldic crown (left) and proposed Ingerish crown (right)

I have chosen not to use the British royal crown with its alternate crosses patée and fleurs de lys because it is a symbol specifically of the British/Commonwealth crown, as distinctive as any real-world company logo or national flag. For Ingerland I have used only crosses patée on the circlet, which ties in with the cross on the flag. I have also given it four arches instead of two. Four is normal for kings in European heraldry, with two being used by lesser dignitaries such as heirs to the throne. The UK is an oddity in this regard; I don't see why Ingerland should be too!

Other depictions

It is normal in European monarchies for the sovereign and royal court to use the most elaborate, or full, version of the coat of arms and for simpler versions to be used by the state and government. I have included some simpler depictions above, along with the royal standard, which is the shield transposed on to a flag (a heraldic banner).

-- Pawl (talk) 16:55, 5 May 2024 (UTC)