Forum:Territory application/AR120-08 - Ardelia

Forums → Territory application → Territory application/AR120-08 - Ardelia

Please fill in the information below to make a territory request.

	Territory ID and proposed name
	The Territory ID (from OpenGeofiction:Territories, e.g. AR123a) and proposed name of the country

AR120-08^∈^⊾ - Ardelia

Sketch: https://imgur.com/a/jCQrDRm (2024-12-30)

This will be a second territory application. I intend to retain Lutang. However, if Lutang is not considered "50% full", I will be willing to close the application and reopen at a later date when Lutang meets the threshold.

	Physical geography
	An overview of climate, topography and landscape of the country. It is advised to also create a sketch, you can add a link to this (hosted on imgur or similar)

Climate would likely be a mix of Virginia (when you superimpose the FSA on the USA) and eastern Sydney (because FSA's coords just happen to coincide with Australia).

The northwest parts of the state are likely to follow a West Virginia-like theme due to the already-present mountains in Michisaukee. The mountains in Ponquin, Whitestone, and Ruppacke will probably end up cutting Ardelia in half. The northeast parts around Huntington will be mostly flat.

The Bluegill River will continue through Ardelia, while the Banaree River will merge with it in Kerr, and the Miranda River will run through Miranda and eventually merge with Bluegill south of Starling.

	Human geography
	A brief description of the territory demographics, economic development, land occupation, infrastructure and mapping style

Population numbers are for the metro.

Mildred, at 700,000 people, is the capital of the state, with the city of Ferian (600,000) on the other side of the river. To the east of the Ferian-Mildred area is Anna's Crossing, at 1,200,000 people. This is the Ferian-Mildred-Anna's Crossing metropolitan area.

South of the forest exists an area of plains, home to the cities of Pressley (180,000), Ardelia City (445,000), Chalta (58,000), and Hernoth (247,000).

Near the Capital Region, Huntington's suburbs spill out into Ardelia, with the cities of Bleneth (380,000), Brintonville (535,000), and Starling (750,000).

With transportation, FS-21 and FS-22 will cross at Hernoth and 21 will cross the forest onward to Anna's Crossing and the Capital Region, while 22 continues onward to AR120-35. The state will have a comprehensive freight rail network, like most FSA states; and a Brightline-like medium-speed (160 km/h) passenger rail service between Kerr and Craught.

Bonus: With Anna's Crossing, an Ann-Anne-Anna triangle will form on the East Coast, with Anne Abbey in Ponquin and New Annshire in Wilthamshire.

	History & culture
	A brief description of the intended culture and language

The influences of the state will be 35% New York, 25% Pennsylvania, 15% Virginia, 10% Iowa, 8% nearby FSA states, 5% Appalachia, and 2% North Archanta (Lutangers, Walleans, Majesians, the Bai, the Huaxians, Kapasigans, etc. in the form of restaurants, embassies, or cultural centers), with a population of around 5.74 million.

	Past mapping
	To support your request provide links to areas of OGF mapping which showcase your mapping skill. Mapping relevant to the requested theme & geography is especially useful
	The {{coord}} template can optionally be used to link to the OGF map - it results in a nice formatted link. Or you can paste in a URL.

While Lutang is mapped in a completely different style, well-mapped areas will still be listed anyway to help you determine if it is "50% full".

Less-detailed but still planned out areas of Lutang:

American-style mapping relevant to Ardelia:

For urban areas: Test American Mapping, NUPDZ (Test American Mapping will be reused as the city of Ferian)
For smaller towns: Tallmadge, Michisaukee

	Username & date
	Sign and date the application by typing four tildes like this: ~~~~

Lemuria (talk) 20:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

	Discussion
	Discussion for clarification & decision

Hi! As Eastern Coordinator and a potential future neighbor, I have a few thoughts.

First, topography (as it relates to your landcover). The topography in New Carnaby is largely made up of a series of north-south mountain chains. The mountains in Whitestone and Ponquin would interact with the systems in New Carnaby just as much as the main border range. I see the Whitestone highlands region stretching in the direction of Wittowoning, NC, cut off on the west side by the Bluegill valley. The landcover I've mapped in Welhamtown, while not finished, works on the assumption that this continuity exists. I'd also like to work with you in having Ruppacke's Rodham watershed extend into the southeast of your state.

When it comes to style, don't be afraid to include some Appalachia influences, particularly the Northern Appalachians. Mining might be a big thing like it is in parts of New Carnaby. Would reccomend having the main population centers be one big city in the center of the state and the southern Huntington suburbs. Maybe even have FS 21 and 31 meet further south to reflect this. Take advantage of the Bluegill River and natural resources. Look at cities in Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, etc for scale and grid layout. Also, some of the names you've been using are a little awkward. Having so many large cities in a region with "Ann" in it comes across as joke-y. I would try and diversify beyond obscure female names, maybe have some -villes, -dales, -towns, etc. --Fluffr Nuttr (talk) 03:58, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, happy to see some feedback. I'll be happy to work with the other states on rivers and mountains and other natural features. However, I am not that good a natural mapper. The green area in my sketch is intended to be both forests and mountains, and a rough shape - it will likely be ridged and there could definitely be a valley where the Bluegill is.

The Ferian-Mildred-Anna's Crossing metropolitan area is already sort of "one big city", by nature of it being a single blob. Its population was definitely reduced to add more people to Huntington. I would be open to FS-21 and FS-31 merging together through the Bluegill valley before forking off at Kerr and proceeding northeast to Anna's Crossing. When I was working on these areas in the NUPDZ, I had Louisville, Kentucky and Richmond, Virginia open in JOSM for inspiration.

However, I don't think that having an Ann-Anne-Anna triangle would be a major issue, I think it's a nice coincidence. Obscure female names are definitely already a common naming theme for me; the state's name itself is one too, so I guess I could tone it down a little more for the Federal States of Archanta. The major cities are what's on the sketch; more minor cities and towns are probably where the -dales, -villes, and -towns will be.

Appalachian influence is already part of the plan, mostly small towns and some mines in the forested mountainous areas. It was originally 40%, but then I realized that I still suffer in the natural mapping department, which I feel is required for good Appalachian mapping. Most of my mapping skill is in urban mapping and making it look like OpenStreetMap.

Will make edits to the sketch to reflect some changed names and FS-21 and FS-31 merging a little lower south.

Lemuria (talk) 17:08, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Update on Anna's Crossing: I think a good compromise could be reducing the size of the 1.2 million city east of Ferian-Mildred to 1 million and reallocating the name Anna's Crossing to a 200k city. Lemuria (talk) 21:38, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Sketch updated to reflect the proposed compromise and also rerouting of FS-21 to meet FS-31 at Kerr before going back east towards Huntington. Lemuria (talk) 19:45, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi, regarding the criteria for a second territory, and "50% full", this can be quite subjective, but your current territory isn't sufficiently full. As you said yourself - natural mapping isn't your strong point, and that is really apparent across the territory where it's easy to pan around at zoom 12 and have areas without mapping. I think the urban mapping suffers too, in many areas the underlying topography isn't clear.

As such, an application for a second territory would be dependant on half of AR004 being split off and released. We would also like a probationary period, with mapping restricted to a 20x40km area initially (20x20 urban, 20x20 rural) to showcase mapping to the theme. Let us know if you'd like to progress with that?

On naming, it's important to work with the FSA coordinators on this, but also keep in mind verisimilitude. An over abundance of feminine given names as the primary naming theme is problematic, for both AR120-08 and AR004. Thanks/wangi (talk) 22:31, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I would like to retain the entirety of AR004, so that means I will be willing to hold off on this application for AR120-08 and reopen at a later date when it is more full. Once I do reach the "half full" threshold, I'd be OK with a probationary area and period, as Asian-style natural mapping will differ heavily from American-style natural mapping anyway.

However, some questions:

Could you explain how "the underlying topography isn't clear"? Is it a problem with Lutang, or the Ferian-Mildred area? Both?
As you say, "50% full" is subjective, so could you also define the level of detail that would contribute towards "50% full"? For example, macro-planned cities, roads, perhaps a few buildings, not just a simple sketch.
How long would such a probationary period last?
What will happen to the Ferian-Mildred area currently mapped within the NUPDZ? With how long it may take for AR004 to reach "half full", it will languish there for months.
How would reopening this application work? Make a new page, or just edit this one?

Lemuria (talk) 23:25, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

"the underlying topography isn't clear" - for Ferian-Mildred (who she?) there really isn't any, except for the river. And the placement of the bridges across it pay zero heed to it. For Lutang it's a general comment, consider for example

0.2217°S, 123.5365°E - what's going on there with those rivers? What topology is driving the urban development at

1.0365°S, 125.3751°E?

I'm not going to exhaustive define criteria for something which i've just said is very subjective. But your question still focusses on the man-made mapping, it's the natural which is much more absent. And that's really what's driving the requirement for half of AR004 to be released ahead of a second territory application being successful. It takes ages to map it out "fully", not something you can turn around in a few months. Have a look around other's mapping on the site.

Thanks/wangi (talk) 13:24, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Okay, seems fair. The northern halves of AR004 have not been mapped for quite a while, and wouldn't be, so after taking a second look, a harder look, I'm not as opposed to it anymore. In the rare scenario that I somehow manage to fill the southern halves of AR004, there is always the option to reannex it far into the future. I've already made some provincial changes and created a multipolygon for most of what I'm willing to hand over: 453952^∈^⊾. Not final; some additional adjustments required.

Before I do confirm my decision to relinquish half of AR004, I would like to know how long the probationary period will last. And if I fail the probationary period, what will be the fate of the other half of AR004?

I will also try to incorporate some more natural mapping into the Ferian-Mildred area in the NUPDZ.

Lemuria (talk) 18:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

I have created AR004a^∈^⊾ to cover the area which would be ceded, this has been marked as reserved and following a successful probationary period this area would be removed from AR004 and marked as available. Otherwise it would be deleted. I have also created a 20 x 40 km project area^∈^⊾ within AR120-08 - feel free to move and reorientate it. Half should be urban, and half rural. Let's consider 3 months as the upper limit on the probationary period? Thanks/wangi (talk) 21:04, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi there Wangi, some family events are taking place, so I'll wait until around January 12-14 to continue the process. Thank you. Lemuria (talk) 23:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Hello there again, I have returned from a multi-day trip to the northern Philippines. I'm ready to continue. Thank you. Lemuria (talk) 01:38, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

	Territory application approved
	Conditionally approved, per above. Edits restricted to within 20 x 40 km project area^∈^⊾, with review in 3 months and the territories marked yellow for now. Thanks/wangi (talk) 13:17, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
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