Forum:Territory application/UL27k - Jlaoxüţţroţxa

Forums → Territory application → Territory application/UL27k - Jlaoxüţţroţxa

You may, but most propably may not know, that I feel a bit tired. I feel like my current country, Aizaqarasabumi, hasn't been a natural creation, but forced by me wanting to have a territory. So after long considerations I have decided to exchange UL26f for a smaller territory - way smaller.

File:Noun Project Signature icon 619326 cc.svg	Territory ID and proposed name
	The Territory ID (from OpenGeofiction:Territories, e.g. AR123a) and proposed name of the country

UL27k - Jlaoxüţţroţxa

File:Noun Project Map icon 1463108.svg	Physical geography
	An overview of climate, topography and landscape of the country. With the exception of Beginner territories, you should always create a sketch map to illustrate & explain your plans. You can add a link to this (hosted on imgBB, Postimages or similar, but not imgur.com)

Jlaoxüţţroţxa is surrounded by huge mountains, reaching up to 3250 meters above sea level - they are considered astonishing and from them the country took its name. (further explanation of the name in "History and culture" part) However these moutains lie on the border - the main part of the country is in a valley, in which the ground is at around 1500 meters above sea level. Through the valley flows a big river, which its sources has in the tallest mountains, located in the west. The climate is harsher then in the surrounding areas, but still very far from alpine climate - it's simply temperate.

File:Invest - The Noun Project.svg	Human geography
	A brief description of the territory demographics, economic development, land occupation, infrastructure and mapping style

About 85-90% of people live alongside the river or overall in the valley. The rest 10-15% lives on the mountainsides, with an obvoius rule being the higher the fewer people live there. The population density is low, even in the valley, for a variety of reasons, some of them being the climate and culture of the country.

File:Noun Project languages icon 105908 cc.svg	History & culture
	A brief description of the intended culture and language

Jlaoxüţţroţxa hasn't really made any mark on history of not only the world, but even the region. The nation has been isolated for centuries, focusing on agriculture and not caring about the outside world, which was challenging to get to. The country was so isolated, that even in the first half of 20th century some people were born, lived and died without leaving the valley once. This caused the country to be well behind others in technological development, sometimes getting some technologies centuries after them being first discovered. Luckily, that situation is currently changing. Lots of new businesses are interested in the country, seeing a great potential in the valley. Additionally, recently government-funded research found petroleum in the northwestern part of the country, which the government is hoping to extract and sell to other nations for a good amount of profit.

Culturally the nation is very different from other nations in the region - but not because of multi-century isolation, which most likely only strengthened the difference, but because the nation doesn't share the same roots. The nation has never undergone any major migrations, and from historic point of view it simply seems like this nation has always been there. That may also explain the name of the country - Jlaoxüţţroţxa literally means "a group of huge, dissimilar, sophisticated mountains". That suggests most, if not all people never saw anything more beautiful than the mountains they were seeing everyday. The language is extremely complicated and has unknown roots - it can't be connected to any other existing language in wany way. The way this language is constructed is fundamentally different from other languages, often not having normal in other languages features.

Technical notes: The aforementioned langauge is the fourth iteration of Ithkuil - famously the most complicated language our world has seen. (this statement is not really true) Ithkuil has its own script - luckily there is a possibility that it can be added to font rendering. The community has not only made a font with all the characters and diacritics meant to convey some features that would not fit on the main character, but also proposed a way of how it could be added to Unicode. Obviously we'll not be adding it to actual Unicode, but we can use plane 16, dedicated by Unicode solely for personal use.

File:Noun Project drawing icon 2123401.svg	Past mapping
	To support your request provide links to areas of OGF mapping which showcase your mapping skill. Mapping relevant to the requested theme & geography is especially useful.
	The {{coord}}, {{node}}, {{relation}} or {{scalehelper}} templates can optionally be used to link to the OGF map - they result in nicely formatted links. Or you can paste in a URL.

https://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/12.2625/-111.8156&layers=B

https://opengeofiction.net/#map=14/-9.0009/169.4383&layers=B

https://opengeofiction.net/#map=14/28.9489/95.4510&layers=B

https://opengeofiction.net/#map=13/28.9659/95.1306&layers=B

https://wiki.opengeofiction.net/util/route_relations.html?map=C/13/-10.44671/166.91374

File:Noun Project Signature icon 619326 cc.svg	Username & date
	Sign and date the application by typing four tildes (~~~~) without spaces or "nowiki" tags.

Have a good day/night! User:SleepyAks 23:39, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

File:Noun project 579150 Conversation.svg	Discussion
	Discussion for clarification & decision

I also want to mention that I'd like to expand the territory a bit to the south - so that it reaches 5-6000 km² and potentially so that it borders UL30a. Have a good day/night! User:SleepyAks 23:50, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

• I'd recommend removing your "technical notes". Remember the core focus of OpenGeofiction is the mapping, the lore and conlanging are secondary. I think your main interest is the conlang, and that's the reason for a lack of perceptible mapping progress in the last year / you feeling a "bit tired". But I'll clear up a misperception you seem to have in your "technical notes" - I cannot realistically see any scenario where the OGF technical admin team modify the backend software to support your custom font glyphs. Thanks/wangi (talk) 09:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

1. I am not tired because I focused too much on side things - in fact both the lore and the conlang are stuck in place where they were 4 months ago.

2. Who said it will have to be admin team? The only thing I need is the font - I am able to add all these characters myself. It's acually not that hard with the right tools.

Have a good day/night! User:SleepyAks 12:07, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

One of us understands how openstreetmap-carto and renderd, used on the tile server, both specify and integrate with the fonts. But never mind that, eh. /wangi (talk) 12:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

To be honest - I don't think that's the time to think about it. The application has not even been approved, and even if it gets approved, I'll be doing topo for the next few weeks - meaning I'll have time for that. Although practically the only thing i can offer is crafting the font. (yes, I did realize that Noto font is actually multiple fonts) But that's not for now. also I'll leave the notes there, because why not?

Indeed, quite - hence my original suggestion to remove the section from the application. It is built upon a misunderstanding of the technical implementation and is of no relevance to the application. I had initially read the assumption that the site admin team could implement a custom font for you as presumptions and a bit rude, but assumed good faith. However, to then double down and tell me "now is not the time" is downright disrespectful. /wangi (talk) 08:18, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello SleepyAks, this is indeed an unusal territory application with some points to discuss. Let's unpack them one by one:

• From my own understanding, Ithkuil is a (theoretically) fully working conlang constructed by John Quijada. The 4th iteration seems to be quite new. Are you confident you are able to map in this language? It seems to me that Ithkuil is so complex that it might actually be close to impossible for a human to take even basic command of the language, but I havent looked into it in too much detail.
• Regarding rendering custom scripts on the map: Wangi has already said everything there is to say on this, but I'll repeat just to be clear: introducing custom fonts to the OSM renderer that OFG uses is far outside the technical capabilities of the admin team. Unless you have personally set up an osm server with custom font rendering before (providing a working example) and think you can do the same for OGF, I'm afraid you'll have to work with the scripts that are available currently. Please indicate how not being able to use a custom font impacts your interest in this particular territory.
• While UL27k is generally available, I'd prefer somehow preserving the current mapping there. Please indicate if your plan was to wipe the territory and start from scratch or build upon the current mapping left behind by sudo. If you want to start from scratch, it might be an option to set up a new mountain micro nation somewhere. In that case we should probably step back a bit and think more general about what type of cultural, geographic and climatic region such a micro nation would fit best.

Looking forward to your reply, best, Leowezy (talk) 14:37, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

• It is actually simpler than it seems. The main and practically only major problem is that you have to constantly look into the lexicon to construct anything (each root, of which there are ~7k if i remember correctly, each has 4 forms, and all of them are.... uhhhh... very similar to each other)
• From what I checked, it may actually be simpler than it seems like, but it seems like this because no one tried. Though I'm not sure - I'm definetely not an expert there... Lack of this writing system would not affect me heavily - prwctically the only thing it gives is an interesting vibe of the country, that's because Latin script (for me at least) just feels... generic.
• I'm planning to start from scratch, but not necessarily wiping the mapping. To be honest - it may fit in any mountainous area. So why not move it somewhere? I think I should ask sudo what he thinks about that.(though it may be problematic as russia blocked disocrd yesterday)

Have a good day/night! User:SleepyAks 15:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for you response.

• Regarding Ithkuil, well I'm curious to see what that would look like on a map one day ^^
• Regarding font: I highly encourage you to go and try yourself, I'm pretty sure it's more complicated than you think. But I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.
• Regarding location: sounds like a plan; so you will ask sudo how attached they are to their current mapping and report back. Regarding moving, both moving the existing mapping to a new spot and establishing a new blank mountain micro nations for your Ithkuil nation are options; so if you spot any particular area in East Uletha / other continents that could fit your interests please let me / the respective regional admin know.

Best, Leowezy (talk) 15:35, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

It has been ten (and a half) days - and yet no response, despite him being active on discord... May someone else also try to reach out to him? I'll be glad if someone does. Have a good day/night! SleepyAks 22:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Did you send them a message on OGF? Leowezy (talk) 17:17, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Yup, the same day as the one on Discord. But, let's be honest, most of us hardly ever log onto their account on OGF... SleepyAks 17:27, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello again, apologies for the late reply -- got much work to do IRL. Yes, I'll move ex-Remnokkalja mapping to one of my territories, just like you wanted. I'll do that in about six hours from now. Sudo91 (talk) 04:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

You may delete everything left behind -- I got myself a backup copy. I'll modify my JOSM file in case I'll need this mapping elsewhere so that the objects will get "offline IDs". Sudo91 (talk) 15:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Sudo. SleepyAks, do you want me to wipe the territory before transferring ownership to you or do you want to decide yourself what to keep and what to delete? Also, Do you want me to wipe your old territory, or do you need assistance with moving some parts, or with backing anything up? Leowezy (talk) 10:22, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

* Regarding my new territory - i'd like it to be wiped. It has some good mapping there, but I don't think it will fit the style I'm aiming for. And regarding my old terrirory, I'd like: 1. To back it up; 2. The mapping in the capital region and on the islands near it to be kept (there is a bit of mapping here and there, like near Midistlandish Bacarat); 3. To finish the topo I started making. Would that be possible? Thanks in advance. SleepyAks 13:36, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and wipe UL27k then. Regarding your old territory: I will leave some placenames and forests in place to theme the area, but the other mapping will have to be cleared at some point unfortunately. If I do that next week, that should leave you plenty of time to back up anything you'd like to kneep, no? Also, after surrendering your old territory the issue of topo maps will be up to the future owner, so I would suggest not investing anymore effort into that to be completely honest. Best, Leowezy (talk) 13:51, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

I've seen a few territories with a note sayig "Current topo layer is to be kept." Maybe my old territory could get such note? SleepyAks 13:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

That is indeed possible, but as far as I can tell, well - there is no topo layer in your current territory? Please correct me if I'm missing something. For a topo layer to be kept even after handing over to a new mapper, it would have to completely cover the territory and - most importantly - be of exceptional quality, ie. high amount of detail and realism, the like of Luciano's work. That takes many months if not years of work. Rémnokkälja is now wiped - I'm happy to proceed by approving this territory application and changing your territory ownership over to UL27k if you agree. Best, Leowezy (talk) 12:16, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

One tile is fully completed and is waiting for the renderer to be ran. Additionally, two more tiles are WIP. But I'll understand if the topo will not be kept. SleepyAks 12:33, 26 October 2024 (UTC)every

I've backed up everything I made, you can wipe it. SleepyAks 20:33, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

	Territory application approved
	Aproved, Leowezy (talk) 12:11, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
	As you develop your territory, be sure to keep it realistic. Here are some resources you may find useful for starting out: Help:Portal, Help:Making realistic countries, Help:Making realistic cities and OpenGeofiction:Site policies