Forum:Territory application/AR120-52 Nakoda

Forums → Territory application → Territory application/AR120-52 Nakoda

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	Territory ID and proposed name
	The Territory ID (from OpenGeofiction:Territories, e.g. AR123a) and proposed name of the country

AR120-52 - Nakota (exchange for Minimapper's territory Neevers)

	Physical geography
	An overview of climate, topography and landscape of the country. It is advised to also create a sketch, you can add a link to this (hosted on imgur or similar)

Sketches

Here

State name’s geography is quite flat and would only have somewhat major height differences in the north. Most people would live across the middle around FS-2 and other pockets of people would be north next to Nenova and down south on the coast.

The average temperature would be in the summer 70-80℉ and the winter around 20℉

It would have patches of many lakes and forests but otherwise it would be plains for the most part.

	Human geography
	A brief description of the territory demographics, economic development, land occupation, infrastructure and mapping style

The state would have around 600,000 people (20 per sq mi + the two cities) with most living in Amhearst (previously Eriksburg) at around 200,000 people and the capital Fort Molston with it having around 60,000 people.

The state's primary industries would be farming, forestry and a lot of mineration in the northern parts with little to medium manufacturing. because of the limited access to the lakes and lack of major river routes.

	History & culture
	A brief description of the intended culture and language

The name Nakota comes from the word for friend in the some dialect of a Siouan language spoken in the region, which got heard by Archantan explorers when arriving at the modern day region of the state, creating the territory of Nakota which evolved to the modern state. Indigenous reservations would have been threatened a lot but are still present in the state, although with small sizes.

Due to the late “discovery” of the territory, the farm sizes happen to be very big (something like Iowa styled farms in the middle) with smaller farms and more forest the closer you get to the northernmost and southernmost edges of the territory.

	Past mapping
	To support your request provide links to areas of OGF mapping which showcase your mapping skill. Mapping relevant to the requested theme & geography is especially useful
	The {{coord}} template can optionally be used to link to the OGF map - it results in a nice formatted link. Or you can paste in a URL.

What3089

Minimapper

	Username & date
	Sign and date the application by typing four tildes like this: ~~~~

What3089 (talk) 05:02, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

MiniMapper (talk) 13:45, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

	Discussion
	Discussion for clarification & decision

Application Content

Hey there! I just wanted to point out that Choctaw (which I'm assuming you want to use) would not be a great fit for the area as one member of the Muskogean language family, Muscogee/Seminole, exists in northern Ogdalen—having another member so far would mess up the coherency. Instead, I recommend looking into languages like Arapaho, Ojibwe, or another language from the Algonquian family, which seems to be dominant in your area. Thanks! --IiEarth (talk) 09:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hello! Thank you for this info! I will let What know about this so we can fix it. MiniMapper (talk) 13:45, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
  - If anything we were just trying to find some sort of name that was "creative" but could not think of anything lol MiniMapper (talk) 14:02, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hey there, we decided to switch the language to a fictional dialect of Lakoda which would be part of the Siouan languages, it should make more sense now since at least in the real world the area of the siouan languages is simillar to -52's location. The name derived from koda in the Dakota language. What3089 (talk) 18:22, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Bear in mind, AN120-58 (Makaska) is a slightly fictionalized Siouan Dialect and people called "Rakhoda". Makaska is maka-ska (white earth) and many, many place names in Makaska and also Ooayatais to the south are drawn from a Dakota dictionary I have.--Luciano (talk) 23:26, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Notes from a neighboring state: The application for this state has some strong points, but there are a few important things that must be taken into consideration. Primarily, I really believe that there should be some understanding of the regional theme and how things would have developed in the agreed-upon landscape of the region.

Theme: 52 is smack in the middle of the Great Lakes–Midwestern theme area of the Federal States. None of the previous mapping indicates any interaction with this theme or any attempt to show it. One of the hallmarks of a Midwestern state is the reliance on PLSS for land usage. The survey is so much more than a grid, as it dictates land use, right-of-way for infrastructure, placement of rail, allotment of land, and how land would even be preserved or sold off. While all that is getting 'into the weeds' a bit with the survey "grid," no previous mapping interacts with that at all. I would strongly advise any application for this state take some time to demonstrate at least a little bit about how it works and how it would be implemented. (Please note that West Massodeya or the NUPDZ can be used to practice this if necessary, with the latter allowing movement into the new state.)
Development: While it is ironically refreshing to see an application for a territory dramatically underestimate population instead of the chronic overestimation, the total population of the state is too low. The city populations are fine (metros would be greater as dictated by theme and how sprawl fits within survey-driven infrastructure), but the countryside would have more people than you are accounting for. Something around 1.25 million is much more appropriate. Similarly, the countryside would be much more driven by farms than forests. An area like this would have been thoroughly settled and cleared where necessary. Settlement would have begun in the territorial stage shortly before 1800 and probably took off in the late 1810s. There would be no "late discovery" here. This state would have had the population and motivation for statehood by 1830 at the absolute latest (and, realistically, probably not later than 1825). Thorough settlement would have been completed by 1850.
Physical geography and climate: Flat terrain with lots of rivers and reasonable climate would generate a land-rush through at least 60% of the state. The climate is actually much more like Illinois than might be thought of on first glance. Consider how little is forested in that state where the terrain is mostly flat. Of course, the state itself is not that large, so you could probably maximize agriculture up to 80% of land area outside metros. So, the amount of forestation here seems overly high. Also, I must note that the Gaudette Lakes make not sense in that area of the state. You could easily move them further south, to a place where glaciation would make more sense, somewhere south of FS-2 at least. The Akogama River also creates a major feature that would have been a pretty ancient river by Archantan standards. So, there would be a notable bluff along the river, showing how it carved into the landscape.

There are a few other points (such as consider having 81 cross into Illuvia north of Armot instead of meandering out-of-the-way and crossing at the tri-state urban point). But, I would like to see these major issues addressed first. — Alessa _(talk) 02:46, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

While I do concur with the concerns regarding PLSS-style mapping, the rest of the application may be a better fit for states like AR120-56 and AR120-57, which could be feasible alternatives. -TheMayor (talk) 03:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Name

I spoke with Luciano briefly and I think the name Nakoda could have been heard when the explorers were in the areas that speak Rakhoda (Dakota), which are closer to the east coast than -52's location. This would make the name plausible, since state names dont necessarily come from the tribe which lived there, having names which got heard from neighboring tribes.

Theme

I myself attempted to do something simillar to the midwestern farmland style in Michisaukee, but we have no problem mapping more of that with the right measurements and taking into consideration the railway companies' impact.
(updated) here is the link for the area I am working on https://opengeofiction.net/#map=12/14.1564/-112.7438&layers=B

Development

.We can bump the population to the recommended amount, we were overestimating how low the population would be as we were comparing it with very northern plains states in the USA. As for the history, we didn't really use years to avoid issues with coherence, 1815 could be the year in which it turns into a state.

Physical Geography and climate

.The gaudette lakes were already being planned by us to be moved, but we forgot to remove/move it in the sketch. When I made the topography sketch I even ignored them as a whole. We overestimated a lot forestation in this state, but that isn't really a problem for us, we are fine with it being a lot more deforested, for now ignore the forest lines as we are not using that anymore. For the highway issue, we will just fix the sketches. Thanks for the reply :) What3089 (talk) 03:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC) (and minimapper)

Site Administration

This application is from a mapper who was previously approved for an FSA state and then withdrew in only about a month’s time. The admin team will need a much stronger commitment from both mappers to ensure this project would stay active before it can be considered. —TheMayor (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Similarly, as WU admin, I will note that the WU territory was already withdrawn after a week per request of the user. — Alessa _(talk) 02:46, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Since both applicants have a history of quickly leaving/swapping out projects, after discussing the issue with wangi, MiniMapper and What3089 will need to agree to the following two terms to continue this application:

This application must be an exchange for AR120-13 (Oakley).
If granted, both mappers will be prohibited from any subsequent territory requests sitewide for a duration of no less than one (1) year.

If both applicants agree to these terms, the admin team and FSA regional coordinators will consider this application further. --TheMayor (talk) 23:11, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I am going to have to speak on Minimapper's behalf as he can't edit this application right now, because he doesn't want to give up Oakley we will give up this application. What3089 (talk) 23:40, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Just a thought: Might this be a better thing as a single application instead of a joint application? This application seems like What3089's project based on the write-up, demonstration of mapping, and responses. — Alessa _(talk) 00:20, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I happen to be back for a few hours and quickly read this and im fine with dropping out of this. I quite like Oakley and it would be hard to leave it. I did write most of the application but it was we would read across it both of us and revise what was needed. I bet you what would still have me there but only for mapping not world building (which I would personally like. I find making History annoying). Also, I was trying to convince What to get 56 for a more mi theme but he really wanted more fields and I can't blame him. The location is nice. If it were just I doing this I would do 56 and that I may consider trading Oakley for. But 52 nah. MiniMapper (talk) 15:40, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough, I'll close out this application. In the future if you are interested in pursuing a swap of Oakley for -56, I'm happy to work with you to discuss potential plans since it borders my state. --TheMayor (talk) 20:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

	Territory application closed
	Withdrawn by user request. --TheMayor (talk) 20:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
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