OGF:Sandbox/Christic movement

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Note from me first: I have been doing a lot of reading about other people's countries and creations. I love that there are so many clever and unique things on the site. I thought I'd offer a proposal to enhance cooperation among everyone a bit while providing a possible starting point for future endeavors. My proposal is about the structure (not the origins) of the Christic faith in this universe. First, I recognize that nothing stirs the pot more than religion, so I wade into this very carefully. I offer this idea as a means of allowing a lot of flexibility into what we currently have and looking forward to what might evolve. I also know that there are strong opinions about this, so please keep any discussion civil.

This post was originally cross-posted in the mapping user diary, here.


Overview of of the Christic movement on OGF

Currently, there are two claimants to the "Catholic" Papacy: Peritan City (essentially a Vatican-like state surrounded by Darcodia), and St. Richards, Pretany. Peritan City does not have a history online, but I'd assume that the intent was something akin to our RW situation with the Vatican. The papacy in St. Richards is said to have been founded in 1373 or 1378, depending on the page, and helped the spread of the Christic movement via the Nortian Clearances. (Side note: the Nortian Clearances would have had to happen much earlier, as was acknowledged on the talk page; this might effect the date of the papacy being established there.) The catholic claimants don't address other Christic branches, such the Elekan branch of Egani (seems like RW Eastern Orthodox), Maurit Orthodoxy in Mauretia (RW Coptic/Oriental Orthodox), or other places like Mergany (RW Protestantism). Of course, another issue to be considered is the breadth of the Christic faith across Uletha and the diverse ways each country was founded—not just the different branches.

Summary of the proposed structure

In an effort to not pin things down too much, my proposal is summed up as this:

  • We backdate the formation of Christic episcopal structure to somewhere in the late 1st or early 2nd century, which is similar to our real-world. I don't suggest we pin the date down exactly. It should be open-ended depending on how the origins of the Christic movement may evolve going forward.
  • We establish a group of patriarchs, akin to the original RW idea of the Pentarchy, from which different branches could evolve and explain the spread of the religion's branches across the entire continent.
  • Protestant branches of the Christic movement can be subsumed into two factions: under a patriarch of their own (like episcopal denominations such as Anglican and Lutheran), or anti-patriarchy (like Baptist and Evangelical churches that mostly use congregational polity).

Therefore, if we were to establish a Pentarchy (or, it can be easily modified in this universe to be a hexarchy or heptarchy), there are some easy places where there could be a claimant. They are as follows:

  • St. Richards (current papal claimant, possibly akin to RW Avignon?)
  • Peritan City (current papal claimant, possibly akin to RW Rome)
  • Tangia, Mauretia (Oriental patriarchy akin to RW Alexandria)
  • Tillia, Egani ("Elekan" patriarchy: Orthodox patriarchy akin to RW Constantinople)

There is room for more claimants of a different patriarchy, so long as the integrity of the Christic faith is left unchallenged. Maybe a Protestant patriarch in Mergany? Of course, I am trusting that full-out theological debates don't have to be incurred. Please, let's keep it civil and remember that this is a touchy issue for many people.

In all, very little actually changes. This is more to compose a system that fits the proposed histories and cultures.

Final thoughts

I see some following benefits to this type of a system. First, the structure of patriarchs provides a structure that is akin to the RW structure of the church and can bring otherwise schismatic groups together to some degree. Second, while there would be the expectation that the patriarchs would try to keep the faith sound, there would be competing interests. The theological differences between RW Coptic Christianity and Catholic Christianity would invariably exist between Tangia and Peritan City. This could help foster backdrops for future conflicts, cultural alignments, inter-governmental sympathies, etc. Perhaps the patriarch of Tillia might be more amenable to Tangia; maybe the competing factions of St. Richards and Peritan City might divide more "catholic" countries among alignments. I think it could be a good springboard for future dialogue while providing an in-universe explanation for the multiple-claimant and multiple-denomination system. Plus, with a fluid user-base, I don't think it's wise to pin things down too tightly in the event new users come and old users go.

All said, I welcome discussion on this system. Alessa (talk) 20:58, 26 October 2016 (CEST)


As Kojo won't be too concerned with a christian-alike religion, I can't really contribute to the discussion; just want to express that I really like this coherent yet open concept, I think it would do a lot of good to how believable the system of religions in OGF is. Names can always be changes, I think it would be nice to have words similar to the RW terms, yet still noticeable different (like Ingerish for English etc.)Leowezy (talk) 23:26, 26 October 2016 (CEST)

I agree and have nothing to add (wow, great discussion starter George, clap clap, I know.) For Drabantia I chose evangelicism with a catholic minority in the south and south-east. The only thing that concerns me is the names. Is using 'catholic' and 'evangelic' okay? --Eklas (talk) 23:30, 26 October 2016 (CEST)

Religion, and names for religions, have been discussed a number of times before without anything much being resolved (e.g. here and here). It would be great if we could get agreement around something like Alessa's outline, and if we could agree on names which avoid replicating RW names (e.g. "Ortholic" has been suggested for RW "Catholic" ...). The question is ... how to we get to a common agreement?

My way of dealing with the lack of an agreed history of Christicism is to have an autonomous patriarchate in Tircambry, which I might extend to Wesmandy too (and too neighbouring countries if they're interested). It is doctrinally subject to the Papacy (but I haven't said which papacy!) but administratively largely independent, so I can develop its history without too much reference to the outside world! I have a rough equivalent of Anglicanism/Episcopaleanism too, called Puritism. I haven't defined its precise origins, so it could be part of the bigger picture. My "reformation", in which Puritism splits from Catholicism, occurs in the 1700s, a couple of centuries later than in the RW. -- Pawl (talk) 07:31, 27 October 2016 (CEST)

I like Alessa's proposal as well: some structure, yet flexible and easily added on to as needed. I have an unnamed "church" in Wiwaxia that's Christic I guess, although it has a fairly small percentage of the population who are believers. Haven't gotten so far as to define it in any way, or where it might belong amongst the various sects. Perhaps it could also be Puritist, since Wiwaxia officially broke off from Ingerland in 1722, it would make sense that it would break with the religion as well perhaps? I have to think about it. For Østermark, I'm thinking of something completely different - a kind of Christic/RW Norse God hybrid. I haven't yet thought it through fully. Perhaps another Christic branch of its own with its own patriarch/bishopric? -- --Demuth (talk) 22:18, 27 October 2016 (CEST)