Talk:Midistland

From OpenGeofiction Encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Midistland is a "community territory," marked on the overview map with the color blue. This means "free to edit, no permission needed."

However, "blue" does not mean "draw whatever you want, wherever you want."

Most "blue" countries have established "traditions" of editing and collaboration. This talk page is intended to support collaboration for this country.

Active Users

Some long-term users have taken a particular interest in Midistland. If you have questions about a feature or area, or an idea, it can be helpful to contact one of these users. If you have taken a particular interest in Midistland, and your name is not on this list, please feel free to add your name below.

  • Aces California - a major past contributor to Midistland.
  • BMSOUZA - a major past contributor to Midistland.
  • Kalh79 - a major past contributor to Midistland.
  • tule00 - a major past contributor to Midistland.

Announcement

Here in the talk we decide about the name, capital city, etc. -tule00 (talk) 00:32, 26 June 2015 (CEST)

Hi, Tule00! First at all, I think you, as country owner, needs define some things, as the official language of your country. So, other OGF users can give opinions about names... Regards! -- BMSOUZA 27 Jun 2015
BMSOUZA: I am not the owner. ULO31 is a community territory. See my diary. I wanted to make it more realistic, like Gobrassanya. -tule00 (talk) 09:52, 27 June 2015 (CEST)
Ok, Tule00! Sorry, I did not read your diary entry before! -- BMSOUZA 27 Jun 2015

Some basics.

So, I'm now a partner in this project, and I've been chatting with Tule a bit through PMs and thought I'd post here anything I've suggested through PMs so other people working on the project can discuss as well.

First point of call is to say, shall we attempt to follow this article [OGF:Making realistic countries] as closely as possible, since we seem to have some nature and highways and cities all placed down already? Start it all again apart from the nature stuff already laid down? Or shall we try to fit to the article as closely as we can?

Definitely not to start over, but as I said, we can change many things. Especially ghost cities and motorways. --tule00 01:13, 15 July 2015 (CEST)

Second point of call: The languages and such of the nation? I for one think we should do Spanish to the West and German in the East, because I haven't seen as many German inspired areas yet so would be a nice change. Spanish to the West because it seems to be already well used on that side.

Third point of call: What shall we make the capital? I've heard somebody say Itleway, though I personally say that it would make sense to put the capital as Bend and make a Capital District from Bend down to Goldendale. We already have quite a few things there that would fit for a capital. By the water with sea access, a big military base near-by and it's very close to the canal which should be where all the money will be pushed into this nations economy. Plus I can just really see the entire waterside being used down to Goldendale and it can be beautiful.

So those are the point I've brought up with Tule I believe. If I missed anything, I'm sure me or Tule will come back to this to add on. It'll be awesome to work with you all.

P.S: Sorry to ask but how do you do that signature thing with the user name and time of posting?

Use four tildes (~) to get the signature thingy. Pawl (talk) 21:16, 14 July 2015 (CEST)
Right thanks Pawl Aces California (talk) 23:22, 14 July 2015 (CEST)
I would collaborate on the project even a little. I agree with all the proposals that you have done, especially in the languages of the nation (Spanish West and East German), we could also change the names of some cities and adapt to Spanish (West) and German (East). I agree to push the capital as Bend.
We can maybe combine Ingerish/English in the Gaermanic/Germanic area --tule00 12:02, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
I can go for this idea of making the west a mix of English and Germanic. I'm also fine with the renaming of cities to the east and west Aces California (talk) 13:47, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
Hey, owners! There is no doubt about the two main languages in UL031. I think would be a good idea if someone create a map with the exact influence zones of these languages, "cuting" the country, something like [1] this. It would help new builders who wants to join UL031/ Midistland too. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 00:40, 30 July 2015 (CEST)
Yeah sounds like a good idea, something to put on the the Wiki first thing for sure. On one tangential note, I wanted to say that my Cariba area, although in the mainly German side, is Spanish because it's one of those Jet-Age 60s Package-Holidays regions (like Costa-del-Sol in Spain or Ibiza etc.) and I don't quite thing that the German language quite fits a holiday region like that ^^...unless that's how it evolved in this world :P Aces California (talk) 02:05, 30 July 2015 (CEST)
Cariba and Rugenia would be Sibling Cities??? hehehe. I took a look, it is a very nice place!!!
Now, seriously, we need to think about this "languages map". And, from this map, the administrative divisions of the country. I see provinces, but may be we need to imagine more divions, as districts. For example, I see myself able to build and edit the area north Rugenia to UL030 border, and I am doing this, but I dont think about me editing too Talamanca or the towns in lake side (both in Rugenia province) -- BMSOUZA (talk) 02:36, 30 July 2015 (CEST)
I agree BMSOUZA, we need a map showing the different territories with their languages. I propose that in the Capital Region is bilingual (like Brussels, for example).--Kalh79 (talk) 23:45, 30 July 2015 (CEST)
I have been working on a map of languages, what do you think??

Languages Midistland.png

--Kalh79 (talk) 11:58, 1 August 2015 (CEST)

Looks like a great start. To help people clearly understand these patterns, the name of the country and its capital should ideally follow them too. For example making the country name Spanish or German, or even something with Spanish/German variants, like België/Belgique... (Mediquia/Mittekia or something?) And the capital, like Brussel/Bruxelles... (Querva/Kehrva?) I'm sure you all can think of something good. :-) --Isleño (talk) 15:48, 1 August 2015 (CEST)
I like the language map! Is very good, Kalh79! About the country name... Ok, I agree with Isleño. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 03:59, 2 August 2015 (CEST)

"Anyone may edit here, no permission needed"??

Hi, friends! I have seen in OGF:Territories about UL031 "anyone may edit here, no permission needed." Maybe the owner of the country (Tule00? Aces California? Kalh79?) would talk to some admin to change this and put something as mentioned about Ardisphere, another collaborative country ("AR025 is collaborative - managed by user Luciano. See the collaboration page for more infomation."). If not, we can expect a day some new user will come and create a new city with a different language and a lot of highways as a simple test. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 12:33, 27 July 2015 (CEST)

Yeah that was one reservation I had at making it freely open to edit, because of that exact scenario. I would prefer this to be a collaborative nation, but we'll do it democratically and see what the other two think. Aces California (talk) 15:02, 27 July 2015 (CEST)

Motorways

We should also define which is the numbering system of highways and roads, we could choose or the road system used in Gobrassanya or other alternative?--Kalh79 (talk) 09:17, 15 July 2015 (CEST)

Not sure. What is the system in Gobrassaanya?
The motorways system in Gobrassanya is:
A-1 is the main principal motorway and runs the length of the country from Northwest to Southeast.
East-West Motorways that predominantly run the length of the country are given single digit numbers (A-2, ... A-4, A-5 ... A-9).
North-South Motorways (or motorways that cross the land from coast to coast) are predominantly number as 2-digit motorways (e.g. A-10, ... A-30, A-35, A-40, ... A-60, ... A-80, ... etc) and additiional numbers should be able to fall in between as best as possible as more motorways are added.--Kalh79 (talk) 11:39, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
Well UL031 is more square-shaped so we can't have one principal motorway... I mean, we can have one most important motorway, but there is no way to make that system here. --tule00 12:02, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
I think it'd be best if we plot our motorways first, edit the ones that are there yadda yadda yadda before we think about numbering. But I do think in numbering we should factor it around the canal somehow. Aces California (talk) 13:51, 15 July 2015 (CEST)

An idea: We can make the major highway from Bend to New Erneerik i.e. the Canal Highway, and that will be the A1/M1. Who agrees? --tule00 14:48, 15 July 2015 (CEST)

And perhaps change the course of the canal (Aces... waiting for you...) --tule00 15:40, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
Yup I am working on the canal currently, it'll be done say 1-2 days at the speed I'm going. And I agree that would be best idea for the main highway. Just to say though, the route of the canal will not differ, it'll just be smoother and look a tad bit more realistic. Aces California (talk) 16:56, 15 July 2015 (CEST)

I propose to make a highway that runs the country diagonally (Northeast to Southwest), Bend crossing and future cities of the center of country. What do you think?--Kalh79 (talk) 08:24, 16 July 2015 (CEST)

I take it you already made it? I can see something according to this plan on the map, and I like it. I feel there should also be a proper highway from the Eastern border by the waterside to the Northern border near Bend and Ritterick. Just really filling in the gap between the canal entrance and Paglobeclaca City. Aces California (talk) 15:19, 16 July 2015 (CEST)
I very much feel you can turn the East Coast Highway into the needed highway along that waterside (with a bit of editing) as if we do make a highway as well, the East Coast Highway might be irrelevant? Aces California (talk) 15:22, 16 July 2015 (CEST)
I think that the East Highway is the classic road which is accessed and crosses the cities and towns, and the coastal motorway is a high capacity road.--Kalh79 (talk) 07:45, 17 July 2015 (CEST)
I am editing Rugenia/ old Paglobeclaca, in east coast. Please say me before creating any highway to this city! BMSOUZA (talk) 17:55, 17 July 2015 (CEST)
Will do BMSOUZA. And on 2 other notes, I turned some Primary Roads into Trunk Roads because it feels like we have too many Primary Roads and not enough Trunk Roads coming off of Bend and Magarath. On the other note, are we going to continue with adding highways or do you feel that all the major highways have been added and we can start planning for where all the big cities are. Aces California (talk) 20:03, 17 July 2015 (CEST)

The name

Someone already named the country "Midistland" and there is a "Alcazar de Midistland" in Bend. That name sounds ok to me, what do you all think? --tule00 16:28, 15 July 2015 (CEST)

I think I can be okay with this Aces California (talk) 16:57, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
I like this name too BMSOUZA (talk) 02:52, 16 July 2015 (CEST)
I agree with name too --Kalh79 (talk) 08:16, 16 July 2015 (CEST)
So, is this the final decision?? Time to imagine a flag now?? hehe BMSOUZA (talk) 10:02, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
As I mentioned below, this name looks/sounds like "Mideast Land." Is that what you want? I suggest you figure out a national "flavor" or "flavors," and then select a country name (or names) to reflect that flavor. --Isleño (talk) 18:17, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
I understand what Isleño says. But I try dont see "-ist-" as "east" sounding, but as "speciallist". I would name it in Spanish something like "Mediaterra" -- BMSOUZA (talk) 22:36, 25 July 2015 (CEST)
It means Middle Isthmus Land. Or land in the middle of the isthmus. Bhj867 (talk) 22:13, 13 October 2015 (CEST)
I just noticed someone made a template with this name... but I have to say, it would really be nice to have a name that fits with the linguistic patterns of the country... I mean, native Spanish words don't even end with the sound "-nd." Especially since this is a blue country where new users are learning how to do stuff, it would be nice to set a good example where all the names form a coherent pattern. --Isleño (talk) 20:21, 14 October 2015 (CEST)
I understand, we could suggest and vote for a name that fits with the linguistic patterns of the country. For example "Mediaterra", "Midisterra", "Midistlandia"... What do you think?? --Kalh79 (talk) 14:09, 15 October 2015 (CEST)
You could vote if you want, or you could just ask the others working on the project. Whatever you like. :-) --Isleño (talk) 18:23, 15 October 2015 (CEST)
I mention "Midistlandia" when I edit Rugenia... -- BMSOUZA (talk) 20:52, 15 October 2015 (CEST)
We'll wait for other users to give their opinion. If anyone else thinks, the name will be "Midistlandia".--Kalh79 (talk) 09:47, 16 October 2015 (CEST)

Advice from an old-timer

Good luck with UL031. One challenge in mapping a blue territory is that it's meant to be welcoming for new users, which is why you get stuff like canals three miles wide, lakes draining in two directions, and odd rivers snaking around between lakes and across canals; not to mention an endless supply of people who seem to draw motorways and place names but little else. So there's definitely some periodic cleanup involved, as new people pass through and test out their beginner mapping skills there.

I was the one who wrote "Making realistic countries" so of course I'd hope that people heed the advice, especially in an area where lots of new users will be learning from your example. That said, if you're determined to start with what's there, then my suggestions would be:

  • First, reserve the southern half of the country for mountains. Focus the vast majority of the population in the northern half.
  • Second, fix the waterways. Panama and Suez canals are under 300m wide. For realistic rivers check out Chara to the northwest. Lakes almost never have more than one outlet.
  • Third, delete any city names that aren't backed up by detailed mapping. Place cities in logical locations by rivers, harbors, and trade routes.
  • Rename any cities that don't fit your naming patterns. (For example, "Bend" could be "La Curva" if it's in a Spanish area.) Feel free to change whatever random names you find. A single, consistent pattern of names definitely helps a place to feel more realistic.
  • If you want German and English and Spanish regions, then maybe it would be most realistic to split UL031 into three separate countries, so each country can fully embody its own "flavor," rather than becoming another hybrid like Gobrassanya. "Midistland" sounds like 'Mideast Land.' Is that what you're going for? Figure out a national "flavor" or "flavors," and then select a country name (or names) to reflect that flavor.
  • There's more than enough motorway already built in UL031. To avoid the country becoming the typical OGF excessive web of motorways (like Gobrassanya) I'd suggest a general rule: for every kilometer of motorway you build, you must delete a kilometer of motorway. That should get your group thinking like real life transportation planners.

After sketching the broad outlines of UL031, my advice for a successful, fulfilling group project (one that actually develops into a really cool map) would be to focus on a much smaller area. For example, you could all combine your efforts to build a single province within UL031, or even a single metropolis. There were some really skilled people involved in Khaiwoon and we literally spent months working together, just to build that one city. Quality mapping requires a lot of time, effort and focus.

I know a lot of us are looking forward to seeing how things develop, and if you'd like feedback feel free to ask anytime. :-) --Isleño (talk) 18:11, 15 July 2015 (CEST)

Thanks for the advice Isleño, we'll definately be heeding it and I've been saying to Tule to try to follow your article on making a nation so hopefully we can use that as a backbone. As for the suggestions;
  • That's the same idea I've been generally thinking since there is already a big section of forest there I need to improve apon so we'll definitely be making that area far less crowded in development.
  • I just fixed the width today and will be making it far more realistic. Once it loads in fully you should be able to see how much width I carved off it.
  • We will definitely be working on that. I'm personally planning on working from a blank canvas as hopefully the placement of a new motorway system will say where the most optimum places for cities are, just as said in your article on country building.
  • I will take that advice of the three languages being split into three nations, but I feel that, given a realistic lore such as German settlers to the West and an indigenous Spanish population to the East, could explain the two languages. And I agree, maybe the country name isn't the best for it's languages and cultures.
  • As said in previous points, I'm planning to start over with the motorways all together. Though I'm not sure as a group what we will go with, but if we go for your method, I would suggest for every KM of new highway, we take out 1 or even 2km of old existing highways.
Aces California (talk) 18:39, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
I think I would suggest, if I can get to start on part 3 in deleting the cities and what not that have no large amounts of detail? And stave off adding motorways until we decide if we want to delete ALL motorways and start afresh, or if we want to go with the idea Isleño suggested in deleting 1km of old motorway for 1km of new motorway? Also how would you describe "detailed mapping", should anything with a street layout put down be spared? Aces California (talk) 18:45, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
What counts as "detailed" is up to you guys. Personally, I'd keep anything that showed real effort... for example, the unnamed city southeast of Seagarden clearly took careful thought and several hours of work. Itleway, on the other hand, just looks like it was sketched out in 5 minutes. In JOSM you can also move stuff fairly easily, so if there's a city you want to keep but it's in a weird location, you can move it elsewhere.
I should probably clarify about languages a bit. There are some really great and realistic countries that are highly multilingual, the Ardisphere for example. But it takes a lot of skill to develop a multilingual landscape that actually feels real. The difficulty with going multilingual in a blue country is that you have lots of new people constantly passing through who won't know anything about your backstory. If they see English, German, and Spanish areas then they'll think "anything goes" and decide to add French areas, Russian areas, Dutch areas, etc. You can avoid that whole problem by making the national pattern very clear. But again, the decision is up to you guys, obviously. There's no requirement that you must follow any advice you get.  :-) --Isleño (talk) 19:50, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
Right oh, I saved that un-named but detailed city, just deleting the roads leading in and out so we can appropriately connect it up again when we are ready. I was planning on saving Itleway just so we can use what is there as a template to create a new Itleway.
And I think I get it, it wasn't my intention anyway to mix in all three areas throughout, it'd be more German/English to the West only, Spanish to the East only. But was can clearly mark where one ends and the other begins through the naming of the counties?
Also in process of deleting a few redundant highways...I may have deleted that massive lake which Itleway is on...Is there a way to bring it back or will I need to remake it from scratch? Aces California (talk) 20:15, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
I don't think the country should be divided. It is a challenge, but let's keep it like that. As for the motorways, the network around N.Erneerik, Margarath seems good to me. --tule00 20:45, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
Yup, I kept the network of Margarath. As for the motorways. I saved around 10 which I saw as quite important for connecting the country while the rest (especially around Itleway) I found a tad unneeded since a) all the cities around it have been deleted and b) They seemed unnecessary anyway in the current stage of motorway planning. From what I left I think we can do something good with the motorways. Aces California (talk) 20:54, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
And don't delete the lake. It looked good. But Itleway... looks like someone thought "Oh, now i will make a huge metropolis that will be the capital" and drew a lot of roads, and a capital=yes population=10000000. That should be deleted. --tule00 21:51, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
That's a good point Tule about Itleway, I'll get rid of it. And as said, I Accidentally deleted the lake. I have replaced it now with a lake that is as much as a copy as possible, managed to get a reliable screenshot while it was still updating the chunks. Aces California (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
In JOSM you can revert individual changesets with the reverter plugin... but in this case I imagine it would be easier to redraw the lake, plus it might be a good opportunity to integrate it with the big river and the other lakes to form a more natural looking watershed (it's pretty strange for such a large river to narrowly avoid all the big lakes and then run parallel to them for so long).
As for different languages in different areas... I'm afraid you'll find that people aren't very perceptive, and being new to OGF makes things even more confusing. Plenty of new users can't even find the blue countries to begin with. A lot of them may not even notice that your regional boundaries exist, let alone appreciate the linguistic pattern you've started. And even among those who understand completely, a lot of them may think "German area... English area... Spanish area... Let's make a Polish area!"
And because UL031 is a blue territory, they are in fact largely free to do what they want, which makes it extremely hard to maintain any order you may have envisioned. So the clearer you make things (e.g. international borders, monolingual countries, etc.), the more people will follow your lead, and that will make life much easier for you guys. Extra "challenge" is the last thing you want on a project this massive, haha... anyway just my 2¢. --Isleño (talk) 21:58, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
But why New Erneerik, Tersk, Time, Ghen? They looked good... --tule00 22:02, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
Thanks again Isleño and I get ya, I think we'd need to talk about a definitive language then. Or we could just get our own little private land for a new country and just forgo UL031 as purely a training ground.
I've been planning to sort out the issue with that river and the lakes and everything after I finish all my current tasks for the country.
And Tule, I deleted all of them because I felt the same way as you did with Itleway, they were too hastily put together and the networks coming off them were to me very unnecessary and could have been done far better economically. Sorry for deleting them but I do feel that there was nothing there that we could work off compared to all the remaining cities. That and I was a tad bit excitable to get a start working on this project ^^' Should have consulted with you first.
So do you maybe want to start completely fresh Tule? A new nation all together and leave UL031 be? Means we wouldn't even need to do all this deleting and editing existing infrastructure and what not. Aces California (talk) 22:22, 15 July 2015 (CEST)
Of course we can, but why don't we do this one a little bit... for all this deleting and editing not to be worthless? --tule00 22:28, 15 July 2015 (CEST) And sorry for being mad about the cities... i was just sad for my N.E. :(
N.E was yours D= I'm so sorry =c Yeah I should have asked before deleting any, but now you can make N.E's infrastructure 100x better ^3^ And yeah we can stick to this if you want to, I'm good with either :P Aces California (talk) 00:23, 16 July 2015 (CEST)

Flag

For a flag, I was thinking something like these. The blue on either side represents the country's position between two seas, with a middle symbol representing the two main populations - Germanic and Hispanic - co-existing. Pawl (talk) 14:54, 24 July 2015 (CEST)

Midistland-flag-proposal1.png

Looking good Pawl, but one thing I do think is it's maybe a bit...non-European based? I think keeping the same ideas we can have a Black and Red cross aligned in the center. Should mean the same thing but be a bit more European looking...pretty much the Icelandic flag xD Aces California (talk) 20:24, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
I avoid crosses, because they symbolize a religion which was founded on a specific person, place and events on a planet far, far away (called Earth) :) This sort of "swirling" pattern was not uncommon in some European cultures, e.g. the Celts and Romans. Pawl (talk) 22:40, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
Makes sense, but I at least feel if everything else is going to be inspired by Germanic/Spaniard influences, then the flag should have some influence. Sure we can keep the swirling pattern, but maybe make it look more like what some European cultures will do. I'll look into it Aces California (talk) 23:26, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
Alternately, you could drop some Gohangukian immigrants into the mix, or Meilanians, to justify the yin-yanginess in the flag (cf Ardisphere's Colonia Coreana).--Luciano (talk) 23:37, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
I agree with Aces California in this point. If UL031 is spanish/german based, a cross, or even a detailed coat of arms would be better. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 23:45, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
My suggestion is, exactly, change the "yin-yanginess" to a coat of arms. Not necessarily including a cross inside it. Another thing: I am not saying Pawl was not original, but someone over me notice the parity UL031 with FLAGMECY.png Mecyna flag?? Blue shape at the sides representing the seas... a "piece" of land between they... geographically, a canal linking these seas... hehehe!!!! :-) -- BMSOUZA (talk) 23:51, 24 July 2015 (CEST)

I created a simple proposal just mixing the background from spanish flag to a germanic symbol.

3band midist.png

I know it is not the best of the best, I still think anyone create a flag like Pawl made, but with a "medieval" and detailed coat of arms, would be the best choice... If my proposal wont be accepted, and I know it wont be accepted, I will use it as Rugenia state/province/something flag, hehehe -- BMSOUZA (talk) 07:38, 25 July 2015 (CEST)


I would put a border around the eagle, Bruno – black on red doesn't show up well.

But the Spanish also used an eagle in their coat of arms until 1981, so your flag could be seen as much more Spanish than German (see the pre-1981 Spanish state flag).

On the other hand, if the eagle can represent both Germans and Spaniards, perhaps it could be combined with my “land between two seas” flag. Or perhaps the colour of the eagle could be changed, since we don't need to look as though we are simply aping Earth countries.

Midistland-flag-proposal2.png

I love coats of arms, but I'm not keen on putting them on flags, because they tend to be too intricate. A good flag – especially a national flag – should be clear, easy to identify when flying at a distance and simple enough for a child to draw from memory. The German state flag is OK because the shield is very simple. The Spanish one is a bit of a mess, in my humble opinion! Pawl (talk) 09:49, 25 July 2015 (CEST)

So better with your changes, Pawl. Could I use my proposal with your changes as Rugenia province flag?? I agree with you, black on red doesn't show up well, as we can see in Albanian flag. About your "land between seas" with the germanic eagle, is hard to say wich one is better. I can looks like a annoying guy because I usually see parity with another flags. That one with the red eagle still remember me the same concept of the FLAGMECY.png Mecyna flag. The flag with a black eagle could looks like Barbados flag, hehehe, despite I like this colour combination, as I use something like this in my Rugenia city flag.
3band rugenia.png
You can see I use almost the same concept...
I would vote in your flag with the red eagle... We are going to a hard choice, hehehe -- BMSOUZA (talk) 10:32, 25 July 2015 (CEST)
Another thing I would like to mention. As the Pawl`s creation, we dont need to use the same colours of "real" Spain and Germany. A good example over that ones by Pawl, is the Scandmark-flag.png Scandmark flag. The same design from real nordic countries, but using green, a colour that doesnt appears in any scandinavian country flag, considering Lithuania is not scandinavian -- BMSOUZA (talk) 10:36, 25 July 2015 (CEST)
Yes, of course you can use the flag with the bordered Eagle for Rugenia, Bruno ... it is mainly your flag!
I've added another variation to the image above, using a two-headed eagle. It makes sense not to use exactly the same eagle that Bruno is using, and two heads makes sense for a country of two main communities.
I like the ideas, I do fine the blue, yellow and red eagle flag above reminds me of Barbados I think which has a similar idea. What if we do something a bit unique and say, we do a cross as suggested (but left aligned), but we can pop on the eagle either on the cross or in one of the corners? Aces California (talk) 17:00, 25 July 2015 (CEST)
And then I saw the Scandmark flag, and disregard what I just said about the cross.
Pawl is doing the evolution in this flag, hehehe! Now, I prefer the version with two heads exactly because represents two main comunities at the same country.
PS: Pawl, I forgot mention, that flag and eagle I am using is from (http://flag-designer.appspot.com) -- BMSOUZA (talk) 21:24, 25 July 2015 (CEST)
It hadn't quite clicked with me that the red-eagle flag is rather similar and identical-coloured to my own Tircambry-national-flag.png Tircambry ! For realism, this isn't a problem - a number of real-world countries have very similar flags (Netherlands/Luxemburg, Monaco/Indonesia are almost identical). But just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to "push" Tircambran ideas here (!), I thought I'd suggest some alternatives - a darker blue, and different-coloured eagles. I quite like a blue eagle.

Midistland-flag-proposal3.png

From that batch, I do like number 5 and 8. Something about the dark blue just feels more right with that colour yellow.
Hahaha, I noticed too "your" colours here, Pawl, but as you say, it is not a problem, because its really a good choice of colours. But, well... this time I will forget the german/spanish red and I vote in the number 7. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 20:33, 26 July 2015 (CEST)
I think I'd go for number 7 too. Bruno, do you want me to upload a bordered-eagle version of your Rugenia flag to replace the one you're using? Pawl (talk) 21:49, 27 July 2015 (CEST)
Replace this one 3band midist.png ?? I will be very happy if you do it, Pawl! Regards!!! -- BMSOUZA (talk) 21:59, 27 July 2015 (CEST)
Any decision, friends?? -- BMSOUZA (talk) 06:02, 20 August 2015 (CEST)
It looks as though two of us favour number 7 and one number 5 or 8. Shall we declare number 7 the winner, or give a dealine of, say, Sunday, for others to vote? Pawl (talk) 07:18, 20 August 2015 (CEST)
I like the flag number 7 also.--Kalh79 (talk) 08:15, 20 August 2015 (CEST)
Oops! I forgot the weekend voting deadline! I'll take it that number 7 is the winner, and post it on the main page. Now then ... a coat of arms :)

Starting Bend

I know a bunch of us are working on our own cities, but before we start getting bogged down in it, I say we all start to pull together to also work on Bend area. I mean we can still work on our own cities, but it might be good for us and the nation if we also do slow work on Bend when not working on our own areas. Aces California (talk) 20:26, 24 July 2015 (CEST)

I agree with you. We must determine what kind of city we want. My proposal is based, by similarity, in the city of Amsterdam (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/52.3632/4.9463). What do you think?--Kalh79 (talk) 11:41, 25 July 2015 (CEST)
I will not touch in Bend, because I am so focused in Rugenia, but I like so much this idea by Kalh79. Bend and Amsterdam looks like similar sites! -- BMSOUZA (talk) 11:57, 25 July 2015 (CEST)
I can go for something Amsterdam looking. Aces California (talk) 16:52, 25 July 2015 (CEST)

Sports

We would think too about the favorite sports of the people in UL031. Aces California build a raceway in Cariba, and I soon will build another one close to Rugenia (we can create a domestic racing championship too), and, as I am talking to Tule00, I have plans about Rugenia to the next Geolympics (summer) host choice. Anyway, I have building some football grounds and, soon, one american football/ gridiron football stadium, that would can be used to by football big derbies or even some UL031 national team matches. As UL031/ Midistland is german/spanish based, I think football(soccer) is the national sport. Is it OK?? -- BMSOUZA (talk) 00:12, 25 July 2015 (CEST)

I think we can do so as well, we can definitely have a domestic racing league, and I suggest once we have a few tracks up, we decide which one can be used for Formula Plus in the Open Geofiction Federation International of Autosports. Also I'd like to fit in a good looking street circuit, maybe somewhere in Bend? Could work for something unique, give a unique variety of buildings with the turns being used, and, as you can guess, I love making race circuits. Also I'm up for a Geolympics, I was thinking of putting up Bend when we do more with it, but we can do Rugenia. Also I can do with football/soccer but maybe it would be good to have some Rugby fields as well? We're gonna need to think which we want, Rugby or American Football. But I can definitely be up for football being the national sport. Aces California (talk) 16:57, 25 July 2015 (CEST)
Also if you want any help with circuits BMSOUZA, I can very much help with you ^^
Thank you about the help building circuits, Aces California, but I love making race circuits too, hehehe. I created the circuits in Cariocas, Belgravia, Brasonia and Luslandia (to a domestic cup, as these countries are historically linkeds), and even in Mecyna and Gobrassanya, and the Khaiwoon was my suggestion to Isleño. But I see we can work together about the Open Geofiction Federation International of Autosports, because I think this article is needing some refresh, hehehe ;-). So, I will build one racing circuit in Rugenia, the other ones we need to decide with who is building the other cities. I like very much your idea to a street circuit in Bend, considering the "unusual landscape"... yeah, it will be so nice!
About the others sports, in my opinion there is no doubt about Football(soccer) as main sport (I created at least SIX teams in Rugenia city - we can put just one or two in the top national level), but I think we dont need specifically to decide between Rugby or American(Gridiron) Football. I want create a American(Gridiron) Football team in Rugenia, maybe "Rugenia Real", something like this, but it doesnt says other cities "needs" to choose American(Gridiron) Football because Rugenia. Other cities can have Rugby teams. One thing I like about real United States is so much sports in the mainstream (AmericanFootball/Basketball/Baseball/IceHockey/Soccer/NASCAR), and I think OGF countries could be the same thing if we want.
About Geolympics, I can forget my plans to Rugenia if the capital Bend really wants to participate, or use it in some "Continental Games" if other Uletha countries owners wants to create one. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 21:56, 25 July 2015 (CEST)

Making Bend

So I was thinking, since we're at least looking towards working with Bend, a plan could be helpful. I was thinking about the comparison before with Amsterdam so I'm basing the plan I have off of the districts of Amsterdam, shown here http://wikitravel.org/upload/shared//f/f6/Amsterdam-map.png. Now I also did small descriptions of what each area should be like, again based off the descriptions from Wikitravel for Amsterdam here http://wikitravel.org/en/Amsterdam.

So without further ado, here is my suggestion for how Bend should look. So suggestions so I can start thinking of a V2, or would you say this can hit the spot?

Bend District Suggestion PNG.png

Aces California (talk) 19:55, 30 July 2015 (CEST)

Also a note to say this is just based off Amsterdam's districts, we can still give them all Spanish names and the such :P Aces California (talk) 19:58, 30 July 2015 (CEST)
What a nice map and master plans!! Looks very good! Well.. I will not edit in Bend, but, I was thinking... is "Bend" a good name to a "spanish" city?? -- BMSOUZA (talk) 21:53, 30 July 2015 (CEST)
Indeed BMSOUZA, I think we need to do some renaming indeed, but I think that can come later down the line with a group discussion, unless you all want to discuss it here? I mean the easiest suggestion is to translate it into Spanish, so the city will become Curva, but we may want to change the name totally, add another word to the start or finish of the name, even adding "The" to the start to become La Curva has a better ring to it, but yeah we can discuss it all. Aces California (talk) 22:09, 30 July 2015 (CEST)
Good job! The map will be very helpful, I'll edit Bend based on it. As for the name of the city for me Bend is fine but if you want to change I agree. I thought, being the capital of the nation, was a bilingual city (Spanish & German). Therefore, the streets, gardens & building names were written in both languages.--Kalh79 (talk) 23:38, 30 July 2015 (CEST)
Thanks Kalh, and I can actually go with it being a bilingual city. Aces California (talk) 00:24, 31 July 2015 (CEST)
Ok. I can take on of the names in Spanish, because it's my language, but someone should take on German.--Kalh79 (talk) 09:56, 31 July 2015 (CEST)


Working with other countries in the region

Hey there, although I'm not an active participant of the project I'd like to quickly throw my two cents in there. As you are aware Midistland is in a quite central position, especially for the nations in south east Uletha. It is very likely that Midistland would have been some kind of "gateway" for Kojo and neighbouring regions to the "European" themed middle and western Ulthea; perhaps there would have been some equivalent of a silk road in the past? I guess we yet have to find a commodity that lacks in one region and would have been sought after in the other, but we could always come up with some colouring ingredient etc., if there's interest. I'm not here to make any concrete suggestions yet, just to let you guys know that I think there is great potential in developing a joint history for many country's in Uletha via Midistland as the geographical and perhaps cultural "connection point" :) (Just to give an example, I have designated the term "S-Bahn" as a loanword from Kalmish, but if applicable I would change it so that it had been inspired by the German spoken in Midistland) I'm open for all types of cross-country collaborations! Leowezy (talk) 15:55, 10 July 2016 (CEST)

Bend as a sibling city

Hello! I want to add Bend as a Sibling City for Sieranów. Can I do it? Also, I'd like to contribute to the country (as it is just few hundred kilometers away from Antharia) but I can't speak Spanish, and I'm just beggining to learn German in school. Is there anything else to do? --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 21:28, 29 July 2016 (CEST)

I dont see any problem about mentioning Sieranów and Bend as Sibling Cities. And about creating new cities or towns in Midistland, I see no problems about you creating something but changing names later ;-) -- BMSOUZA (talk) 20:54, 29 July 2016 (CEST)
Tommorow I'll make a stub article for Bend, because it is propably the only capital of blue country that has no article on Wiki. --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 21:28, 29 July 2016 (CEST)

Don't you think that Midistland is a mess?

Hi! Originally i wanted to put some kind "rant" here, but decided to throw it away and just write the following question: Don't you think that getting some attention to Midistland and organising the edits like it was done in Gobrassanya would really improve the mapping and wiki-coverage of the country? This is why I'm asking: When I look at Midistland I see a lot of nasty newbie messups, scale problems in major cities (looking at Margarath), airport in every single town (Orkneytown for example, despite being the size of a little town has two airports - of course generalising here but there are far too many airports in the country), american-styled cities mixed with the european ones (compare Bend to Termapolis), lack of detail (basically every major city) and overall "unfinishness" (every major city, but i'd like to point out Rugenia which looks like it has had half of it's roads removed) - and these are just some of the problems. I would even risk stating that it looks worse than Commonia. I have some ideas for rearranging the railways and highways, but I don't want to destroy anyones work or change major stuff wihout approval of the biggest contributors and admin team as it is an open territory, which I think is meant for at least some collaboration. --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 23:00, 23 December 2016 (CET)

Yes. Midistland is a mess. If the solution is to tidy up the mess (rather than work somewhere else) then someone has to be proactive. I think it would be very positive to work on the same lines as Gobrassanya - keep anything worth keeping, delete the rest.--Udilugbuldigu (talk) 23:49, 23 December 2016 (CET)
Really, Margarath? That seems to be the better of the scaled cities in that country. There are some cities with mile wide blocks in Midistland. The walled city of Margarath is literally a mile in diameter. That's like modern day London. Everything else I agree with. There needs to be a serious motorway clearing in the entire country.Bhj867 (talk) 07:16, 24 December 2016 (CET)
When I tried to put a railway station here and tracks the inner ring area was too small. Look at New Erneerik. --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 09:49, 24 December 2016 (CET)
Scale down your stations and track spacing. It's too big. Take a look at this station. [2]Bhj867 (talk) 17:06, 24 December 2016 (CET)
I'd just like to throw myself into the ring when it comes to a "restart" of collaborative mapping in Midistland. I think it might be a good idea for me to get involved in a territory other than Kojo for a start, and secondly, as I mentioned before, Midistland is in a crucial geostrategic position for south-eastern Uletha. One question I'm still unclear about; is Midistland supposed to be a "new world country"? It's location makes sch a scenario very hard to imagine in my opinion, yet many city's street layout seem very grid-oriented and American in general. Merry Christmas, Leowezy (talk) 20:40, 24 December 2016 (CET)
Well, I always throught about it as about an european country, but i think all the newbies that make these griddy nightmares are of different opinion ;) . --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 20:50, 24 December 2016 (CET)
I know tonight, I am going on a motorway deletion spree. Bhj867 (talk) 22:17, 24 December 2016 (CET)
I can get behind a restructuring...or introduction of a structure in general. I think it was lack of structure and collaboration that killed the first version. I would prefer if instead of starting a new, keeping at least stuff like city names, demographic concepts, the whole part-Spanish;part-German language divide.I do think it needs a much better structure to make sure that things are smooth and continuous. I won't be taking the tables up myself due to other projects, but I'd sure be happy to help with suggestions and projects! (Also I forgot the code you need to type for the timestamp...)

Realistic... but not really

What to do with cities like Tengah, which look kinda nice, but they're not European-styled? --tule00 19:07, 6 April 2017 (CEST)

I'll give my opinion as well, even though I'm not a mapper of Midistland. Also, towards the people who worked on Tengah, please don't take my words as harsh or even insulting; just yesterday I completely erased Finkyáse and started anew, and the more often I do these complete re-hauls of bigger areas in my own country the more convinced I am that it's actually really beneficial for high-quality mapping in the long term. This is especially true for places that turn out to simply not fit into the larger concept at all in hindsight; one problem of course of collaborative projects in general is, that one cannot simply just delete one's own work, and in a way it always feels weird (rightfully so) to step over others' work and try to go for a fresh new start. But if Midistland really is supposed to be an old-world country with organically grown infrastructure, I honestly think Tengah (or Termapolis and other cities) should not remain part of it. Leowezy (talk) 20:39, 6 April 2017 (CEST)
I think that they should be reworked together with the rest of Midistland from scratch. But the better cities (like Tengah) could be moved to Commonia though. What about moving the mapping but leaving the city names? --Trabantemnaksiezyc (talk) 20:53, 6 April 2017 (CEST)
I'd recommend treating Midistland like Commonia. Let it be for now, and we'll fix it later in a more comprehensive way. --Isleño (talk) 21:41, 6 April 2017 (CEST)
I don't think Midistland should go THAT low. After all, there's a lot of room in Commonia. I think I agree with Trabantemnaksiezyc -- we should move these to Commonia and make different cities with the same names. --tule00 22:28, 6 April 2017 (CEST)
I don't know what you mean by "going low," but if you want this country to look good then it needs to be reorganized in a thoughtful, intelligent, comprehensive process; and without the endless influx of new users. Moving cities around right now would be a waste of time, since newbies will start building the same type of stuff tomorrow, and also since we're likely to be rethinking the whole place in the near future anyway. --Isleño (talk) 23:06, 6 April 2017 (CEST)
Again I think it's best to say that Commonia should be the new-users grounds, a blank that users can edit on to their hearts content, and then make all the other blue open nations ones that users can grind their teeth on so to say. Instead of having collaborative grounds like Midistland and Mecyna turn into Commonia's, restrict Commonia to the use of new users, and if they want to start editing with more competence and detail they can move onto collaborations like Midistland or Gobbrasanya or etc. which have carefully organized, thoughtful, and watched list of things newer users can do which would theoretically build their skill. I think the only way we can sort out new-users editing in places like Midistland that is community but organized, is to apply some form of Great Filter. But then I don't know the intricate workings of the OSM coding, so I don't know if it's a thing you can really do. If it otherwise means it'll be the job of Admins to watch over unlawful edits and direct the new users to Commonia, that won't be worth the Filter idea. --Aces California (talk) 00:21, 7 April 2017 (CEST)

On a second note, being one of the original contributors to the original plans to develop Midistland, I would personally love to work with others or admins to create this thoughtful reorganization of tasks and processes, as I feel most of what was discussed previously can still be implimented. At the very least concerning Bend. --Aces California (talk) 00:21, 7 April 2017 (CEST)

That's actually quite a nice idea. I think that Commonia should have a special status in the overview map, and for all other blue countries it should be explicitly emphasized to look at the talk page before doing anything. --tule00 21:07, 8 April 2017 (CEST)
I start thinking about copying Rugenia to one of my countries, hehehe -- BMSOUZA (talk) 21:12, 8 April 2017 (CEST)
That's something to ponder actually BMSOUZA, I have my Spanish inspired resort city of Cariba that with a bit of editing could fit in well as a city in southern Tierajas-Verdes, I'll leave behind the city name and landuse polys, and stuff that won't fit in the middle-wealth inspired nation, but everything else can go with me :P --Aces California (talk) 21:33, 8 April 2017 (CEST)
Speaking of Cariba, I don't know if it should be on the Germanic side --tule00 22:39, 8 April 2017 (CEST)
Well, I've already removed all of the streets, etc. from Cariba, so whenever time comes, it can be changed easy. Also a blank slate for currently any new users who wants to build it up --Aces California (talk)

Also, I thought the north was supposed to be densely populated, and the south should be reserved for mountains. If so, what is this mountain doing here? It seems quite unrealistic, especially considering the fact that it's very close to a city that is supposed to have topography similar to that of Amsterdam. Also, the highways curves are too tight. I think that forest should be moved here. What do you all say? --tule00 22:53, 8 April 2017 (CEST)

I think that the topography and forests need to be thought over entirely again. What I was thinking was the plan was mountains in the Northern and Southern border regions, with the delta where the capital is being relatively flat like Amsterdam, and the middle being a bit hilly. I think before we start thinking about the small details and cities, we need to redo the forests, mountains, lakes, rivers, highways, and basic railway links. Should we keep everything else established at that point? Take consensus on keeping the German-Spanish mixed influence, all the town names and locations, etc. I think the town-names need to be considered only after we have the geography done like how it is realistically plotted. --Aces California (talk) 00:10, 9 April 2017 (CEST)
I would like to reiterate what I said above: please hold off on any 'reorganization' until we're at a point where the country can be entirely shut down and new users can be directed elsewhere. Thanks. --Isleño (talk) 19:23, 9 April 2017 (CEST)
I understand Isleno, we're not reallt discussing reorganization in the context of doing it soon, just tossing around ideas and current conceptions of Midistland for when that time eventually arrives. No planning right now! --Aces California (talk) 21:23, 9 April 2017 (CEST)
I beg to differ. Yes planning, no realization yet. Although I really don't like that mountain there :/ --tule00 23:29, 9 April 2017 (CEST)
I'm not sure what will happen... but as is also the case in Commonia, it's possible that the future reorganization of this area could involve changes like the country being split, content being moved to different locations, etc; so I don't think it would be wise to engage in planning right now. --Isleño (talk) 00:14, 10 April 2017 (CEST)
In that case,...oh well. --tule00 01:06, 10 April 2017 (CEST)

Rivers & Caldaso Reservoir

A couple points for discussion:

Caldaso Reservoir has two outlets, the river that goes through Termapolis and one to Tengah. This is unlike in real life, as http://wiki.opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/OGF:Making_realistic_rivers shows. I propose we disconnect the outlet of Caldaso leading to Termapolis and reroute the river into Termapolis from the Sierra Elcher.

Lake Siebenbronn and Lago Atacoma also have a couple issues, the first being that they both connect to the ocean on either side of Midistland. My personal proposal would be that we disconnect Lake Siebenbronn and the river that flows to New Erneerik just after the town of Siebenbronn, and re-orient the river on the west side to flow from the hills (?) east of Champigny Margaux. Then we could also fix the river split just west of Pentekeburg, which could flow from the northern part of the Champigny Margaux hills into Margarath.

I'm not sure how consensus is supposed to be achieved with Midistland, but I'm happy to do some of the river redirecting if others agree with the proposed changes. We will need some new names for the rivers coming from the Champigny Margaux hills, I think the language map indicates they should be German in origin.

Thanks!

Please sign your message using --~~~~, User:Meg11. Cadalso is messed up, but not the two lakes: The sea connection on the west side is natural, but the east side is artificial (A canal in Breassau and a canal in Esthyra) to improve shipping methods, so leave both lakes as-is. You might want to build some inflows into the Siebenbronn lake from the hills. Anyways, as the owner of the nearby country of Esthyra, I'd happy to assist. --Austinhuang (talk) 23:50, 15 March 2018 (CET)
Hi! After a long break I want to work more on Cadalso, I think I found a good reference point in my random browsing of OSM in Embalse Cerrón Grande in El Salvador. I think we should disconnect one of the two outlets from Cadalso but I'm not sure which it should be. Probably the one to the North West, and leave the river going to Termapolis (different from my previous post). Let me know what you think and I can try fixing it, then work more on making the lake shore more realistic, making the highways less weird, and adding some v small towns along the lake. Yay! --Meg11 (talk) 23:49, 25 October 2018 (CEST)