Talk:Vinnic Economic Community

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Discussion - general

OK ... here's the place to discuss the VEC.

I've taken the liberty of creating a flag, but of course it can be changed to something else if others want.

I envision the VEC would have been created in about 1985, after the fall of Norðerland's military regime. The VEC treaty (Treaty of ... ?) would have set up a process to lower tarrif and other trade barriers between member states, and have created Community institutions. I'm thinking something like the European Community/Union but not as integrated and wide-ranging as the present EU. Institutions could include a Council of Ministers, containing a representative from each government, a Commission or Secretariat responsible for the administration of policy, and perhaps an Assembly consisting of members chosen from national Parliaments. But others may have other ideas! ...

I quite like Markus's (EMKLI) idea that it may be a continuation or revival of the old Vinnic League, perhaps for some quirky legal reason. Pawl (talk) 14:51, 7 August 2015 (CEST)

Nice flag! However, I would propose to move the date of foundation one or two years, because the first government elections in Nordurland's Second republic took place in 1985 and I guess, the preparation time to form such an economic league is more than one year. I will write my idea of the foundation story later today and will post it here.
EMKLI (talk) 00:21, 8 August 2015 (CEST)
OK ... how about 1987? That gives two years for negotiations and getting things set up Pawl (talk) 21:20, 8 August 2015 (CEST)
Ok, I think this is a realistic time frame. From Nordurland's perspective, the interest in the VEC is the following:
  • In 1984, when the military regime collapsed, the country was almost bankrupt and the population was starving. On the other hand, the old regime left behind a country in a totally desolate condition (because almost all money was used for the military juggernaut). So huge investments had to be made.
  • To get new money as soon as possible, the government decided to go a quite radical way and break with lots of things. First of all, the country asked the Assembly of Nations to observe the process of democratization (mainly to get recognized by the AN).
  • Second, the government decided to go without any military forces in the future. There were fears that this would leave the country totally vulnerable, so the government had a strong interest in investing in good relations to it's neighbors to minimize the risk of any assaults.
  • Third- and this is the most important part - the government tried to establish a free trade zone with it's neighbors. Nordurland is rich in resources, but there was almost no market until 1984, because the military regime isolated itself and also was internationally scorned. So in 1985, Nordurland invited its neighbors to propose a free trade zone around the Vinnic Sea (were there any attempts of other states too? Did some of them maybe sniffed a chance to open up a new market for them?). This finally led to the foundation of the VEC.
  • Nordurland also proposed to drop the visa requirements between all participating states (we can say that not all countries participate in this proposal because it might not be in their interests, however, Nordurland voluntarily dropped the visa requirements for all its neighboring countries and all countries around the Vinn sea due to it's own interests).
  • Nordurland's main interest is to sell mineral resources, oil and energy. Additionally, in the meantime, a large electronics and microelectronics industry emerged in Nordurland. On the other side, the country highly depends on food imports, vehicles (however, with strong economic restrictions) and lots of other manufactured goods.
These are my ideas for possible reasons of the VEC's foundation. How about yours?
EMKLI (talk) 00:58, 9 August 2015 (CEST)
From the point of view of Tircambry, the reasons for founding the VEC might have included:
  • Concern that Nordurland might slip back into military dictatorship or decline into chaos if its economy wasn't developed rapidly. Tircambry had something of a problem with the number of Norlensk political and economic refugees : helping to stabilize Nordurland and increase its prosperity was a long-term solution to this.
  • A need for easy access to new energy and mineral resources, especially since reserves in the Tirmynydd coalmines were beginning to decline and become more difficult and expensive to extract.
  • Trade with some of Tircambry's major overseas markets was declining as their own economies developed and modernized. Tircamby needed new markets for its manufactured goods. Nordurland was a golden opportunity, but this was also a chance to remove tariff barriers with other Vinnic nations.
  • As agricultural production became more efficient and productive, Tircambry found itself with more surpluses for export. Nordurland needed food :)
Actually, what do you think about the idea of there having been a "Vinnic War" with Nordurland fighting Tircambry and others in the early 1980s? The hardship caused by this could have been part of the cause of the dictatorship's downfall, and an incentive to tie the countries into a permanent economic union so that they would not go to war again.
Pawl (talk) 10:12, 9 August 2015 (CEST)
That's a good idea (if you can say this about a war... ;) ). In fact, Nordurland spent so much money for military purposes... it seems logical that they actually wanted to use their equipment. I already imagined a (smaller) conflict between Nordurland and it's western Neighbor Konsiat about the northern islands, however, my neighbor has gone. :(
I even have an idea why the war could have been started. As Nordurland was in desperate need of money and it "owns" the only maritime passage out of the Vinn Sea, it might have installed a naval blockade that forced cargo vessels to pay a passage tax. This, of course, was unacceptable by the other vinnic states. However, Nordurland was undiscerning when diplomatic efforts where made to solve the problem, so the other countries had to take hard action.
The war could have started around 1980,'81 or so. Maybe, the vinnic countries expected a long war, however, the internal popular uprising in 1984 ended the war sooner than everybody expected. The situation of the population was so much desperate (and maybe Nordurland experienced high casualties as the military equipment could be categorized as 'quantity rather than quality') that they couldn't bear their regime anymore. So, officially, Nordurland was not defeated on a military way (however, maybe some countries found a way to support the uprising in their own interest), and maybe this (and the fact that Nordurland delivered lots of its formal military leaders directly to the international court) is exactly the reason why the VEC even became possible.
By the way: maybe many companies saw their chance to get a piece of the economic pie and establish themselves in Nordurland. However, especially in the resource sector, Nordurland only partly allowed the participation of external companies because the government nationalized many of the norlensk companies and won't allow any competition. This, of course, might have led to some disappointment. However, in other sectors like parts of the secondary as well as the whole tertiary and quartery sector, these restrictions weren't given.
EMKLI (talk) 10:50, 9 August 2015 (CEST)
Hmmm ... I have been a bit concerned about your stranglehold on access to the Vinn Sea :) This is sounding good. I'm not sure whether to call the conflict the Vinnic War or something else, as I imagine there must have been quite a few Vinnic wars over the centuries!
It's a shame we don't have more active neighbours. Pawl (talk) 11:06, 9 August 2015 (CEST)
It really is... I already thought about the idea of asking Thilo to make UL153 a common territory - to close this huge gap between the quite active nations around it.
By the way... Maybe, the VEC also includes a common maritime police, on one hand to secure the maritime trade in the Vinn Sea but on the other hand to ensure that a situation like this blockade is never going to happen again. Also, the other countries may have imposed the condition that Nordurland had to quit it's territorial claims on at least two passages through the Hledesund.
EMKLI (talk) 11:25, 9 August 2015 (CEST)

Headquarters

Customs putrajaya

I would like to propose Frjálshöfn as the capital of the VEC - referring to its role during the times of the Vinnic league. EMKLI (talk) 00:24, 8 August 2015 (CEST)

Frjálshöfn is fine with me Pawl (talk) 21:20, 8 August 2015 (CEST)
Take a look, we have a home now. EMKLI (talk) 00:58, 9 August 2015 (CEST)
Very good! Should every VEC member have a delegation to the VEC in Frjálshöfn? And an embassy? Pawl (talk)
Actually, as Markvad is the capital of Nordurland, embassies should be placed there (but I'm not as organized yet that I can tell where in Markvad they should be). However, I think that it's only consequent that every VEC member has a representational delegation close to the VEC headquarters. As the capital facilities were moved from Frjalshöfn to Markvad from 1985 on, old embassy buildings get orphaned and needed a new purpose. So the participating countries even might kept their old embassies for that purpose. I will create some details in Frjalshöfn in the next days so that I can tell you where the delegations could have their quarters.

Institutions/Purpose of VEC

@ Adminero us - glad to see Vinnmark is now a member of the VEC! If you want elaborate on how Vinnmark fits into the community just add some comments here, referring to Pawl's and EMKLI's points above. I'm certain there can be a place for some 'institutions' in a number of different countries, but at the same time I'm sure you'll understand that this is a collaborative page. Best wishes Udi (owner of the - currently neglected - Ionadàlba) --Udilugbuldigu (talk) 15:19, 21 February 2016 (CET)

How to expand and activate VEC (and NWUU)

I made a map that shows the member countries as of January 2018. I hope the map will be outdated soon, as new countries join the community. The VEC has been quite passive ever since I joined, but I hope this will change. I would like to actively recruit new members in hope of making VEC more active. At the moment, there are eleven owned territories that fill the membership criteria but are not members, and another three territories yet unclaimed. To expand further, I suggest a change of rules so that any democratic country bordering another member country could join. This would open VEC to some major countries like Pretany and Sathria, to several unclaimed territories and, when some of them join, to new countries like Brennland and Antolossia.

Then there is this other project, North-West Ulethan Union (NWUU) that was initiated last autumn with a facebook page and everything, but is in danger of becoming passive, too. These two projects should be linked together somehow. We need a simple enough, practically oriented plan to give the needed boost to these cooperations. A good starting point would be railways, but it is limited by lack of land borders between some of the countries.

Therefore I suggest we start with brand cooperation. Let's put together a simple set of rules for how to expand e.g. a restaurant chain to other member countries. Start a wiki page that gives permissions to brand-specific mapping within the VEC area once certain criteria are met. Inintially, every country could define their own criteria in a table like in OGF:Embassies, so that we get started. An ultimate goal would be: same rules for all members. I can make a sketch if this idea is supported.

It might also be an idea to move this discussion partly to the new Discussion board: [1]. EDIT: direct link to thread: [2]

What do you guys think? --LemonKing (talk) 17:44, 5 February 2018 (CET)

Here is a sketch for discussion: Vinnic_Economic_Community/Sandbox:VEC_Business_Listing --LemonKing (talk) 13:22, 6 February 2018 (CET)
I added toolbar models to the sketch. Thanks Infrarrojo and adminero_us for adding your mapping condition data. If you guys want, I guess we can make this official soon, without waiting for everyone's reply. After all, the rules only apply to the units listed. Some approval from the founding members of VEC would be nice though, as I do not wish to steal someone else's project. --LemonKing (talk) 17:31, 13 February 2018 (CET)


When I started the NWUU project, I spent a lot of time on it. Fortunately, I am wprking now, with not very much time to work on it. At the time, I made a sketch of a Constitution, that was not even discussed by anybody. I guess organize it in a real political way is quite boring for everybody, but it is in fact the most real way of doing it. I'll be back soon! Happy mapping everyone!

Nice to hear from you, Friedrich Kirchen! The constitution was an ambitious project, I read through the sketch. I respect a lot the effort you put in it and I share you wish for a deeper kind of cooperation. However, now that I have been hanging around here for six months, I realize the community isn't ready for such a time-consuming project; all mappers have their individual passions and little time is left for shared metaprojects not directly connected to mapping. A more realistic cooperation at this point would be one that is more about giving mapping freedoms than making complicated commitments. With time, I hope NWUU will become a real cooperation, perhaps in a somewhat simplified form. In the meantime, let's see if the VEC businesses page will have some effect on mapping. -- LemonKing (talk) 16:32, 12 March 2018 (CET)

VEC business listing is official now. Please add further comments to its discussion page: OGF:VEC_Business_Listing -- LemonKing (talk) 13:22, 13 March 2018 (CET)