Forum:Valonne/Valonian vocabulary

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As acting project coordinator for Valony, I have started a sandbox with some Valonian vocabulary that may be used in mapping: Valonian exonyms, names for religions, rivers...

For the following elements, having a Valonian equivalent has not been that easy. I'm proposing some solutions but others may well fit even better. Feel free to share your opinion, even though you're not well-versed in French:

Valonian exonyms

Archanta

Federal States

Based on US/American - américain/états-unien, should we have état-fédérien/ne and/or archantéen/ne?
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I use "étatier" as a derivative of "état" to refer to people of the Federal States. Chazeltine (talk) 13:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Kartumie

Should we have Cartumie with a /y/ sound or Cartoumie with a /u/ sound?
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I think Cartoumie sounds better than Cartumie (I've put "Kartoumie" streets outside Valonne already) but at the end, Cartumie with a /y/ sound will make it sound more valonian than Cartoumie so my choice will go for Cartumie. --Sweetykid (talk) 22:48, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I kind of agree with your first feeling: Cartoumie sounds better than Cartumie. --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

AgreedImperator (talk) 00:15, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it depends on how Kartumia was discovered to the Valonians. Kartumia has similar spelling in French to the city of Khartoum, Sudan. "Cartumie" is my preference if the Valonians named the continent; otherwise, "Cartoumie" (like Khartoum) if the Valonians called the Kartumians what they call themselves. Chazeltine (talk) 13:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Tarephia

Novakia

Should we have novaque as we have Slovaquie/slovaque or novaquien? As Novakia is small and not a neighbouring country, it's rather unlikely we'll have a rue des novaques compared to rue des pléviens
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! I am happy about considering my country to name a street in Nemans! But, as I know almost nothing about french language, I can not say a word about "novaque" or "novaquien"... Ah, just to mention, there are not neighborhoods to any specific nationality in Slovech, but there is a cultural center and a park close to the valonian embassy. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 01:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, basically, French has the equivalent of Slovak (slovaque) instead of Slovakian (slovaquien does not exist). I guess Portuguese works as Spanish with only eslovaco and no eslovacano, if I'm not mistaken. Hence, novaque/novaco (Valonian pronounced like Novak Djokovic) instead of navaquien/novacano, that was the question. As said, Novakia and Valony not being neighbours, it's unlikely the demonym would have been used. Rue de Novaquie as Rue du Brésil makes sense, but Rue des Novaques as Rue des Brésiliens would be sound "weird" as there has not been large historical Brazilian/Novakian population or personal interaction with France/Valony. Compare it to the numerous rue/avenue/boulevard des italiens, allemands or belges in France. --Aiki (talk) 07:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Uletha

Astria

In French, V-S-C (where V is for vowel and C for consonant) tends to switch to V̂-C. Should we have Astrie or Âtrie? And consequently, should we have astrien/astrienne or âtrien/âtrienne? Note that we may still have Âtrie but astrien, or reverse.
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Âtrie and âtrien(ne) both sound good to me. ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 19:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I like Âtrie and âtrien(ne) too. --Sweetykid (talk) 22:48, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Alright, let's have some Rue d'Âtrie. --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Kalm

Kalm equivalent is rather tricky as the direct one would be Calme as in calm.

• Using French phonetics, we could have: Kalm -> Chalm (as in caput->chef or canus->chien k->tʃ->ʃ) and later a palatisation of the l Chalm -> Le Chaum or Chaüm (as in saltus->saut salva->sauge al->aw->o) pronounced /ʃa.ɔm/, with a potential adjective chahomais/chahomaise.
• A complete exonym as we have, IRW, Deutsch/German/Allemand/Tedescho...
  --Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Chaum sounds good, but Chahomais look kind of funny on the eye. Are there any potential corruption to make it appear simpler? Like Chomais? ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 19:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Chaum would likely be pronounced /ʃom/ while Chaüm would be pronounced like Capharnaüm /ʃa.ɔm/. The "h" was proposed as a way to avoid chaümais pronounced /ʃa.yme/, but indeed, chomais /ʃɔme/ or chaumais /ʃome/ makes a sensible alternative.--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Est-ce qu'il y a beaucoup de chômage au Chaum? Chaum is a good name, but my first association with Chaum would be unemployment because of the wordplay. I like that chômer is derived from Latin caumāre (“to rest during the heat”), so there's an opportunity for a derivative of caumāre. Chazeltine (talk) 13:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Religions

Imamism

Should we have imamiste or imamique as an adjective equivalent to musulman?
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Why not simply Imamisme, similar to Imanisme ? Imperator (talk) 21:27, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, the question is just about the adjective? The word is indeed Imamisme, copied on Ingrean Imamism. It would be used in location such as "Centre culturel imamique/imamiste". --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Imaniste would seem the more regular choice. Humanisme - Humaniste, Imanisme - Imaniste Imperator (talk) 17:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

In that case, we'd have Centro cultural imamista, Imamist Cultural Centre or Imamistisches Kulturzentrum, to name but a few. Does it sound right to yo? (it's not a rhetoric question 😉)?--Aiki (talk) 06:59, 2 November 2024 (UTC) Yes, that works fine. Imperator (talk) 00:15, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Ivarian

Should we have hibérain(e) (ɛ̃/ɛn or ɛn in South of France) or hibéran(e) (ã/an or ane in South of France) as an adjective equivalent to juif/ve - israélite? Likewise, should we have Hibérainisme or Hibéranisme?
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

If following trends in some other countries on OGF, we can have it get derived from the country of Ivira (Iviron). ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 19:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure if 'Ivarian' is commonly used in OGF—Ibriyim seems a lot more common. Regardless, I recommend against the usage of either due to their clear derivation from עִבְרִי (ivrí/ibri)', the Hebrew word for 'Hebrew'. Such names are reminiscent of those from earlier OGF eras, and I'm sure we can work together to come up with a more creative name. --IiEarth (talk) 15:45, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks to you both. It does raise the question of having, or not, a separate OGF-word as we now how Plevian, Ingrean, Valonian...If based on Iviron, I supposed, we would have Ivironnais or Évironnais. If based on older Ivira, maybe Iviran(e), Éviran(e), Ibiran(e), Ébiran(e), hiviran(e), héviran(e), hibiran(e) or hébiran(e), the "h" standing for the rough breathing and original ע. Maybe I should ask other French speakers here, but the initial "ivi" sounds a bit weird. I tend to replace either i by an é to avoid the repetition, maybe it's just me. --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Would there be a transposition of sounds from Iviron to Ivrion if it were to help the Valonians pronounce the name of Iviron? Or maybe the second syllable is dropped entirely: Ivron. Chazeltine (talk) 13:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Odonyms

Political system

IRW France, many main streets or squares are de la République. Though many Rue or Place Royale still exist in France, a lots of them have been "republically" renamed. If Valony is a republic, I'd assume many ways tagged highway: will be named accordingly. Should we consider Valony a republic?
--Aiki (talk) 04:56, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I am fine with either a monarchy or republic. Republics are more common nowadays, a monarchy could make things interesting. Either way I think we can approach the street issue by just ignoring the 'republicanisation', so to call. I think it would be more interesting to have both the sense of historical monarchism and present-day republicanism coexist. ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 19:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Agree, let's ignore 'de la République places for the time being. --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

I've noticed we already had a few generic odonyms in Nemans that can be used as de la République: de Valonne (Valony Street...), National(e) (National Street...), de l'Unité (Unity Street...). I'm unsure for de l'Indépendance if Valony is supposed to have always been independent. --Aiki (talk) 06:59, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Public figures

Below are some names I've noted from places, mainly in Nemans:

Name	Surname	Occupation	Dates	Note
Auréline		Personification of Valonne (alike Marianne)?
Georges	Bêches
César	Binet
Lucien	Dalasque	Author	~1850s
Bernard	de l'Aïc
Edmond	de Remmeau	Philanthropist	~1880s-1920s
Léopold	Decazes
?	d'Estienne Tour
Léonard	d'Ouaisie
?	Ducelle
Alphonse	Durant
Michelle	Frochot
Philippe	Le Bon	Ruler
Roger	Le Grand	Ruler
Joseph-Antoine	Marbois	Marshal	18th century	In Nemans: street, statue and lycée
Étienne	Ruau
Hippolyte	Sudreau
Arnoulet XII Maindedieu (Hand of God)	Lerlac (idea)	Emperor
Antoine	Vallebourg	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Bernard	Tessine	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Nicolas	Bonille	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Rudolph	Laumer	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres The French equivalent of Rudolph is Rodolphe--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Louis	Roullac	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Victoire	Pommier	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Albertine	Ramier	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Gabrielle	Garcia	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Leonie	Vaillant	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres Léonie takes an accute accent: Léonie Vaillant--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Miriam	Eschberger	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres Myriam is the traditional spelling of the name. I suppose, in the 19th century, this would have been respected, especially at a time when names and surnames were still "acclimatized"--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Jean	Piret	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Alexandre	Dupont	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Rosalie	Teyes	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Cécile	Fleur	Author, pseudonym	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Yvette	Bertrand	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Charles	Vernaye	Author, activist	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Silvain	Arthur	Author	19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres Sylvain with a "y" is the usual French spelling: Sylvain Arthur--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Amélie	Catou	Author	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Alexandre	Chradon	Author, of Iviran origin	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Jeanne	Modny	Author	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Louis	Saint-Reiss	Author	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Stéphanie	Martin	Author	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Georges	Dupont	Author	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Antoine	Lauzerbourg	Author	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Jean	Saint-Guibert	Author	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Pierre	Puleau	Author	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Sophie	Thauvin	Peace activist	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres
Marc	Hércourt	Peace activist	late 19th century	Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres French of spelling refrains from using accents before two consonants: Marc Hercourt seems more natural--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Ludovic	Berger	Chemist/Pharmacist	19th century	Calque on Louis Pasteur. Meant to be the same kind of figure.
Godefroy III		Ruler	Probably Middle Ages
?	Sémand
Anne	Vaburgo
?	Bittencourt
Henry	Lewijk			Potential French version for Henry: Henri. Depends on when he lives. Up until the early/mid 20th century, given names were translated as well--Aiki (talk) 03:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
Lambert	de Bréneuf
?	Ahlers
Anna	Basingen
?	Carrant
?	Chéron
?	Clémentel
?	Dalbâtre
Eugénie		Queen
?	Dessault
?	Dessack
?	Sorbier	Doctor
Edgar	Bine
Elisabeth	de Blaauwenbourg			Potential French version: Élisabeth de Bleubourg--Aiki (talk) 03:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
Frédéric	le Grand	Ruler
?	Grauberg
Guy-Victor	Carbert
Humphrey	Fenot			Potential French version for Humphrey: Onfroy, though rare and medieval--Aiki (talk) 03:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
?	Petitdidier
?	Proux
Roseline	de Rouvin
?	Savare
Sophie	de Lintique	Queen