Forum:Global and regional issues/Suvuma

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Original concept by Isleño, thanks to BMSOUZA for resurfacing
Original idea for flag and seal by Isleño, thanks to BMSOUZA for resurfacing

In this thread, I'd like to open a discussion about the future (and past) of Suvuma. There is no urgent need for action, so the default course of action will be to leave the as-is status in place; but I think it's my role as regional admin to see if there might be a rough consensus in the community for a different way forward.

Background

Suvuma, a large tropical subcontinent in the South of East Uletha, has been marked as reserved for a collaborative project for a long time. Many years ago a then-admin of OGF, Isleño, proposed a concept for a history of this continent (see on the right), created a very realistic macro forest coverage with only very few agricultural areas being carved into the dense rain forest along the coast and some rivers, and partitioned it into sub-territories. The intended mapping style was probably in the medium income range, similar to South-East Asia or rural Brazil, but I cannot reconstruct that for certain. For reasons I also cannot reconstruct, the project never really took off - perhaps because of only limited interest in the intended style of mapping among the community, perhaps for other reasons. Since then, the continent has been in hiatus.

Ways forward

As far as I can see, there are three options how to proceed. Everyone feel free to suggest additional ones:

  • A: Leave as-is, with the territory staying reserved for a future collaborative project
  • B: If there is demand for a collaborative territory using a mapping style (i.e. language, climate, income, culture) that currently cannot be satisfied by existing blue or purple territories and that would instead fit in well with Suvuma, we could start a process to initiate a new collab. This would entail identifying a clear target theme for Suvuma; finding a suitable collab leader and at least three collaborators; drafting a new history and mapping outline; starting the collab.
  • C: If there is no sufficient demand for another collab and we are relatively certain that such demand will not arise in the foreseeable future, Suvuma could be partitioned into three to five private territories that would then enter the list of available territories for new mappers. Besides ruling out A and B, this option would also entail thinking about which target theme this new area should get.

Discussion

Please use this section to discuss which way(s) forward you prefer. If you want to discuss any one option in detail, please do so in the respective section below. Don't forget to sign your comments using 4x~. Thanks! Leowezy (talk) 09:07, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm leaning towards A or B. Back on OGFC there were a couple of passing discussions, whether to make it like New Guinea or Papua (the shape is similar) or Madagascar. And the history outline quite reminded me of Sri Lanka's, because the Tamils, which once controlled British Ceylon, were forced out of power and were actively discriminated against since, which caused the civil war.
In one of the pre-2020 reorganisations, the Asperic region is also generally meant to be "Austronesian", or "Asperic". Another possibility mused was that it could have been "indianised". Given Suvuma's location, it's quite possible it could be at the confluence of various cultures between southern Uletha and Archanta. I say it's best to leave it reserved as an "open collaborative" of sorts, given it's rather strategic nature.
Anyway, for further reference, there was this archived version of Suvuma from the old wiki. But there wasn't much beyond an outline given in the lead.--Zhenkang (talk) 10:24, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
Despite I am directly interested about it, because Goytakanya, I prefer first to read opinions before to say my one. Anyway, I want to repeat here what I said to admins when talking to them. When Goytakanya and Suvuma concepts was created, there was other times to OGF, when mentioning RW countries was only about environment, economy, etc, not about language or culture. Specially in this case, because the original idea was clear about poverty and ethnic conflicts, so, would be better to create new people than bring real ones to OGF.
Me and Davieerr are moving Goytakanya closer to Telkarnatha and away to Suvuma, preventing if the option C was chosen, but I keep interested if A or B got more votes.

Honestly all options don't seem very convincing. Or to be precise neither B or C options seem to take into consideration all factors which probably should be taken. First of all it should be said that forest should roughly stay as it is. I don't mean even a single node can not be moved but the plan should stay. Therefore some restrictions on the project should have been made to prevent complete deforestration. From that perspective collab (option B) is quite good to consider but I must say we have too many collabs at this point compared to very limited base of users who want to collab. Additionally collabs initiated top down (from admin to users) have rather... let's call it, moderate success, although that's mostly overstatement. Therefore I would refrain from option B.

Option C is also wrong. If you decide to partition Suvuma into several tiny territories it would lead to deforestration by users who want to maximize efficiency of terrain use for urban mapping. I agree, Suvuma is large by itself - 700k km2 is large from perspective of average OGF territory but 80% of it (judged by eyeballing) is that forest, which means only about 140k km2 remains for creative mapping without extensive deforestration. That is fully mappable for one user or for collaboration of two or three users. That leads us to the statement that option C is also wrong.

What I would propose is to make Suvuma available (green) in its current shape, just with constraints towards the forest and requirement of management experience in middle sized territory. If there would be one competent user who agrees to keep the forest, give it to them. If a group, give it to the group. But don't divide. If that is impossible, the only viable option for me remains A. Rustem Pasha (talk) 14:59, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

I agree with Rustem. The groundwork for Suvuma remains solid and if one mapper or a group of mappers believes they can appropriately adapt it, either on their own or as a collaborative of some sort, I would support it, but in the meantime there’s no real need to subdivide or change the existing plans. -TheMayor (talk) 01:11, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm very happy to see that there is finally a discussion surrounding Suvuma! I've been interested in the territory since I started on OGF, so I have some thoughts on the matter. I agree with Rustem that it doesn't make sense to split Suvuma up - the forest, borders, and general concept of the territory should be preserved if Option C is chosen. However, I am very partial to Options A or B - Suvuma is a very unique territory that has the potential for a really interesting blend of mapping styles in an interesting and important location. It's true that there is are a limited number of collaboratives, and although I would be very interested in leading it, I'm simply too busy to do so, though I would be interested in participating. --User:Lithium-Ion | [1] (talk) 17:58, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Is there room for some mix of option A and option C (or A & B)? It seems like there is some room for protecting key parts of the island for a future collaborative (including the internal forest) while also allowing for a couple smaller territories around the edges somewhere for mappers experienced in the style if any exist/are interested. Ernestpkirby (talk) 06:05, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
Just to be entirely clear on my view on this, I don't think it should have any territories carved out of it. If the consensus is that it should remain closed for the time being, there are plenty of tropical territories (including some island territories) that can be mapped in the same/similar style. User:Lithium-Ion | [2] (talk) 23:19, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Though I have minimal knowledge of how to map themes outside of the USA/FSA I would be interested in doing rural mapping in this nation if it becomes a collab! Though like I said I don't have knowledge in whatever theme it would end up being I will try to learn it so what I make can be as accurate as possible. I agree with Rustem Pasha that the nation should not be split up but I think it would be hard for one person or a small group to map a nation of such size. I dont know what would be best for the territory though it becoming a collab even if that means waiting a long time, I just know I would enjoy mapping it. Also, what is up with the way its split up? It looks like the FSA with collabs in a collab. MiniMapper (talk) 22:51, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

General

Option A

  1. Zhenkang (talk) 10:24, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. Rustem Pasha (talk) 14:59, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Kyunzi (talk) 00:39, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. ParrotMan (talk) 04:15, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. TheMayor (talk) 01:11, 31 January 2025 (UTC)


Option B

  1. Davieerr (talk) 01:39, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. MiniMapper (talk) 22:51, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Option C

  1. ...
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